Article 132 of comp.sys.amiga.reviews: Path: leela!orstcs!rutgers!ub!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!usenet From: david@ariane.cam.org (David Lebel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.reviews Subject: MINI-REVIEW: The Commodore Amiga 4000 Keywords: Amiga, computer, hot topic, commercial, Message-ID: <1992Oct5.004517.7220@menudo.uh.edu> Date: 5 Oct 92 00:45:17 GMT Sender: amiga-reviews@math.uh.edu (comp.sys.amiga.reviews moderator) Reply-To: david@ariane.cam.org (David Lebel) Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.hardware Organization: The Amiga Online Review Column - ed. Daniel Barrett Lines: 119 Approved: barrett@math.uh.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: karazm.math.uh.edu [MODERATOR'S NOTE: I found this mini-review in the newsgroup comp.sys.amiga.advocacy. Since the A4000 is such a hot topic, I got David's permission to repost this in c.s.a.reviews. It is very preliminary, but the first detailed "hands-on" report I've seen on USENET. Enjoy! -Dan] I had a chance to see in person (and actually use) an Amiga 4000 at a Commodore private show held in Montreal, Quebec, Canada last Tuesday. [MODERATOR'S NOTE: That would be either September 22 or 29, 1992.] My feelings? Nice machine. The AGA shines in 256 colours, and the HAM8 is awesome. I converted an IFF24 ray-tracing image into Productivity (VGA) 640x480 in HAM8 on ADPro, and the result was really fine, considering that I was using a really cheap 1960 monitor. Speed? Around 3.4 times an Amiga 3000 (in an average of the tests I have done), just under the Mercury [68040] board from PP&S. In AIBB, it got a nice 4.7 millions instructions by second (AIBB ratings here, not "MIPS" standard) against my 2.2 figures on my A3000. Graphics speed? Really nice. Under 64 colors, you can get around the same speed of a 2 bit-plane WB on A3000. Above that, the speed decreases to the figures of the actual 16 colors WB. So: Colors on A4000 | Feels like x colors on A3000 ----------------|----------------------------- 2 | 2 4 | 2 8 | 2 16 | 2+ 32 | 4 64 | 8 128 | 16 more or less. 256 | 16+ These are, of course, "subjective" results, and depend purely on my point of view. These "tests" were done in MULTISCAN:Productivity mode (640x480). In general, the screens/refreshes/windows/blits are a lot faster than those of the ECS chipset. Another sad thing to note here; there's no flickerFixer in the A4000, so even if you activate the Mode Promotion in IControl preferences, some programs will force 15khz displays (the most "notorious" was DeluxePaint IV). Also, for the same reasons, to obtain a "flickerfixed" screen, you must use "DblNTSC" or "DblPAL" display modes. If you use old NTSC: or PAL: modes, you will get a flickered screen. So forget you NEC 3FGx, 4FG, or even better Sony's CPD-1304 for example as they doesn't supports 15khz modes. The only mode in fact that will work with those monitors is the MULTISCAN: modes. Also note that in DblNTSC: mode, the maximum overscan is less than actual ECS modes (around 454 in y, if I remember right). There's NO overscan in MULTISCAN: modes (the gadgets are ghosted)! [MODERATOR'S NOTE: I did not understand the above paragraph, since Commodore employees on USENET have stated that the AGA chipset has relieved the need for a flickerfixer. So, I asked David to clarify it. It seems that OS 3.0 uses a "Display Database" through which applications open their screens. Some programs like DPaint IV do not use the Display Database and run into trouble. Here are David's words: "Well, to de-interlace the Workbench, you must use "doubled monitor" modes (like DblNTSC or DblPAL). When you put your Workbench in one of these modes, you will end up with a 29.xx to 31.5khz screen. If you select "Mode Promotion" in IControl, every screen that opens using standard OS calls using the Display Database will be promoted to the WB screen refresh rate. However, many programs DO NOT USE the Display Database (like DPaint IV), so their normal NTSC: (or PAL:) screen will be displayed at 15khz. Intuition accepts the request and displays a 15khz screen. If the screen is in interlaced mode, screen will flicker. If a normal non-interlaced screen is requested, you will see scanlines. Although the AGA can output at 31.5khz, it is not a flickerfixer." Thanks, David. I realize that some of the explanation above talks about AmigaOS 3.0 features that some of us are not familiar with yet. If you are uncertain about what is being explained here, I recommend you talk to your dealer or ask on USENET. - Dan] The 800x600 mode is INTERLACED. The hard drive? Well, the one I played with was equipped with an awfully slow A2090 (or was it A2091) SCSI card, and DiskSpeed reported a 50k transfer average rate. The other machine (where all the people were) seemed a little faster and was using a Western Digital Caviar 280MB hard drive. (Sorry, no figures here.) The machine I saw was a pre-production model. Jumpers were fixed on some circuits of the main board. Some chips are clearly marked as being manufactured by NCR. The board was clean, and the CPU board was "hidden" under the drive bay. However, the SIMMS are nicely located, at the front left corner, so you don't have to play "get the screwdrivers" for more than the external ones (nice IMHO). The look? Well, kind of cheap. It feels like a PC clone. The keyboard doesn't have the same feeling as the A3000 one (which I love). The case is about the same height as, but somewhat larger than, the A3000 one. And both Amiga 4000's I saw had the old-wimpy mouse, not the nice pregnant mouse. I don't know why. The price? Some rumours say 2,500$ for developers in Canada. Around 3,500$ for Mr. Joe Public. (In Canadian dollars of course; surely less in USA). When? One week to receive the official price list. Two more weeks to get them. Alex Orgill (C= rep in Canada) was clear on that. Conclusion? Nice machine. If you don't mind the interlaced screens of some programs, a not so bad raw speed transfer rate on IDE drives (eventually, you will buy a SCSI-2 card :-)) and you want horse power (against the old ECS) in terms of graphics rendering and computing, go for the Amiga 4000. For those who want to know, I'll keep my faithful A3000. --- Daniel Barrett, Moderator, comp.sys.amiga.reviews Send reviews to: amiga-reviews-submissions@math.uh.edu Request information: amiga-reviews-requests@math.uh.edu General discussion: amiga-reviews@math.uh.edu Article 140 of comp.sys.amiga.reviews: Path: leela!orstcs!rutgers!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!usenet From: barrett@math.uh.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.reviews Subject: Re: MINI-REVIEW: The Commodore Amiga 4000 Keywords: Amiga, computer, hot topic, commercial Message-ID: <1992Oct17.141256.12853@menudo.uh.edu> Date: 17 Oct 92 14:12:56 GMT Sender: amiga-reviews@math.uh.edu (comp.sys.amiga.reviews moderator) Reply-To: Alex Orgill Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.hardware Organization: The Amiga Online Review Column - ed. Daniel Barrett Lines: 37 Approved: barrett@math.uh.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: karazm.math.uh.edu Alex Orgill, Manager of Amiga Products for Commodore Canada, sent me a few clarifications about David Lebel's mini-review of the Amiga 4000. >From: Alex Orgill >To: amiga-reviews@math.uh.EDU >Subject: A4000 Review >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:36:47 -0400 > > Most importantly, the quoted prices of the systems were not quite >correct. These should be $4595 MSRP (Canada) and $3144 Developer (Canada). >It was not the clearest of environments to "talk prices" at the Montreal >meeting. > >[David Lebel reported on the slow speed of the hard drive.] > > Disk Speed: He's right. The system he was using was not configured >for any kind of optimization of disk I/O. The A2091 controller in use had >implemented polled I/O ROMs. Need I say, this is not a production feature. The above information has been inserted into the archived copy of David Lebel's review. Mr. Orgill had more comments about the review which did not quite fit the "Vendor Comments" guidelines for c.s.a.reviews, so I have encouraged him to post them in c.s.a.hardware. By the way, I am still waiting for somebody to submit a full review (not a mini-review) of the Amiga 4000. Thousands of people are waiting for one, and ideally several people will submit them. Any volunteers? --- Daniel Barrett, Moderator, comp.sys.amiga.reviews Send reviews to: amiga-reviews-submissions@math.uh.edu Request information: amiga-reviews-requests@math.uh.edu General discussion: amiga-reviews@math.uh.edu