From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 00:03:49 1998 Received: from orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl (orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl [194.204.141.12]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA07854 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:46:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from server.fiber.net.pl ([195.117.208.52]) by orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA2966 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:46:04 +0200 From: Marcin Orlowski To: "[WFMH] AmigaPPC-Dev ML" Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:42:00 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0.0 beta10 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Organization: W.F.M.H. (http://wfmh.org.pl) Subject: Admin's request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, Does anyone have the _complete and unchanged_ amigappc.9802.lzh log from our ML (downloaded from ftp://amiga.com.pl/pub/lists/)? If so, please contact me ASAP. Thanks -- My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Marcin http://wfmh.org.pl/~carlos/ mailto:carlos@wfmh.org.pl From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 01:03:42 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08437 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:57:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from paix-alg-gw1-30.ncal.verio.com (fw@paix-alg-gw1-30.ncal.verio.com [207.21.130.221]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id OAA28436 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:56:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:55:46 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Wright X-Sender: fw@paix-alg-gw1-30.ncal.verio.com Reply-To: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: <19980331181122.64984@plukwa.pdi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Robert Ramiega wrote: > Not in this case. In all Blizzards PPC ppc.library and 68040.library is > burnt in to the flashROM (ppc.library is indeed version 45.16 and > 68040.library in my case has version 43.4). So it doesn't matter what You > put in libs: Yikes! What a bad idea, especially with software that's still in beta. It also means you can't disable the PPC by renaming the library. I'm sure glad I have a 3000, not a 1200. Fred Wright From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 03:43:43 1998 Received: from mail-r1.shlink.de (mail-r1.shlink.de [194.64.6.19]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA10536 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 03:40:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.shlink.de (194.64.6.3) by mail-r1.shlink.de with smtp (Smail3.2.0.95 #1) id m0yKCUF-00014GC; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 03:38:43 +0200 (MEST) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1H+M2MD5131aUz1@ark.news.wwbnet.de> From: ARK@News.wwbnet.de (Andreas R. Kleinert) Path: apg.wwbnet.de!News.wwbnet.de Organization: PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX Subject: Re: SnoopDOS vs. CyberstormPPC Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 02:00:00 +0200 X-Mailer: MicroDot 1.17beta3 [REGISTERED 005131] References: <351FA481.MD-0.214.mclaughd@kdn0.attnet.or.jp> Received: by News.wwbnet.de ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:45:16 +0100 Received: by apg.wwbnet.de ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:11:44 +0100 X-Gateway: ZCONNECT apg.wwbnet.de [UNIX/Connect v0.76b1-t1] X-Comment-To: Douglas McLaughlin X-ZC-TELEFON: 0271-22869 (PHONE/AM/FAX) - NO BBS X-ZC-POST: Sandstrasse 1, D-57072 Siegen, Germany. You wrote at 30.03.1998/15:56:17: > > > I will give it a try and get back to you... > > > > I just got my PowerUP board installed yesterday, and determined > > empirically that SnoopDOS is usable with PATCHRAMLIB=NO in the tooltypes. > > This means that you lose the ability to track file accesses from ramlib, > > but it's better than nothing. The objects being looked for by ramlib can > > be seen by tracking OpenLibrary(), OpenDevice(), etc., but you don't get > > to see the actual full path for the files. It BTW does seem to be a Ramlib-related stack problem; even on a plain 68k system I sometimes did encounter problems with SnoopDos when the OpenLibrary-catch was active (thus ramlib-patch, too) - e.g. with superview-lib. It's IMHO one of the weak points of current AmigaOS and should be addressed in V3.5 - Exec's library system and API is far more flexible than the current implementation. It's not difficult to produce deadlocks and crashes with the current Ramlib-based design. -- Andreas_Kleinert@t-online.de | ARK@amigaworld.com | Fido 2:2457/350.18 ARK@superview.ftn.neckar-alb.de | ARK@News.wwbnet.de | - *SuperView* - PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX - http://home.t-online.de/home/Andreas_Kleinert/ Image Engineer Registration Site Europe --- Software Engineering -- MicroDot 1.17beta3 registered From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 10:43:44 1998 Received: from nottingham.ac.uk (pat.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.40.194]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11144 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:43:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk) [128.243.40.43] by nottingham.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yKJ6O-0006YV-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:42:32 +0100 Received: from (PPCJMZ.chemistry) [128.243.121.236] by unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yKJ6N-00060J-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:42:31 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980401094459.00b1152c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> X-Sender: pczmhx@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:44:59 +0100 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" From: Mark Howson Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: <19980331181122.64984@plukwa.pdi.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:11 PM 3/31/98 +0000, you wrote: > Not in this case. In all Blizzards PPC ppc.library and 68040.library is >burnt in to the flashROM (ppc.library is indeed version 45.16 and >68040.library in my case has version 43.4). So it doesn't matter what You >put in libs: Thanks for confirming that :( How stupid is that on a scale of 1 to 10? > According to P5 tech-support upgrades will be available as soon as >flashburner program will be ready (NO, DO NOT USE scsi_xxx from scsi dir on >P5 ftp site it is meant for Cyberstorm's only) They didn't mention *when*, did they? 45.16 is too old already :) Thanks for the info. (sigh) Mark From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 13:43:58 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11520 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:39:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from paix-alg-gw1-63.ncal.verio.com (fw@paix-alg-gw1-63.ncal.verio.com [207.21.130.254]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id DAA14378 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 03:38:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 03:38:06 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Wright X-Sender: fw@paix-alg-gw1-63.ncal.verio.com Reply-To: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SnoopDOS vs. CyberstormPPC In-Reply-To: <1H+M2MD5131aUz1@ark.news.wwbnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Andreas R. Kleinert wrote: > It BTW does seem to be a Ramlib-related stack problem; even on a plain > 68k system I sometimes did encounter problems with SnoopDos when the > OpenLibrary-catch was active (thus ramlib-patch, too) - e.g. with > superview-lib. Most system patches run the risk of causing problems due to unanticipated increases in stack usage, and SnoopDOS is certainly no exception. However, the problem motivating the PATCHRAMLIB option, AIUI, is related to a conflict in the use of a signal. Since the symptom of this partiular problem is that OpenLibrary() et al *sometimes* hang when being tracked by SnoopDOS *and* ppc.library is active, this sounds more like the sort of trouble involved. It's interesting to note that ramlib crashes are a fairly common consequence of memory trashing. Perhaps this is because so many ramlib PCs tend to get left around on stacks? Fred Wright From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 13:44:05 1998 Received: from plukwa.pdi.net (robert@plukwa.pdi.net [195.116.162.7]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11528 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:42:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 2028827720 invoked by uid 531); 1 Apr 1998 13:44:17 -0000 Message-ID: <19980401134414.46407@plukwa.pdi.net> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:44:14 +0000 From: Robert Ramiega To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems References: <19980331181122.64984@plukwa.pdi.net> <3.0.1.32.19980401094459.00b1152c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980401094459.00b1152c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>; from Mark Howson on Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 09:44:59AM +0100 Organization: PDi Ltd, Lodz, PL X-Personal: PlukwaZone Owner X-PGP-fingerprint: BB 1F 6D 5F CF AF 5A 67 E3 0C EA 68 E4 7F 74 B1 On Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 09:44:59AM +0100, Mark Howson wrote: > At 06:11 PM 3/31/98 +0000, you wrote: > > > Not in this case. In all Blizzards PPC ppc.library and 68040.library is > >burnt in to the flashROM (ppc.library is indeed version 45.16 and > >68040.library in my case has version 43.4). So it doesn't matter what You > >put in libs: > > Thanks for confirming that :( Well i learned this the hard way (i fought with my BPPC for a week and still can't het it to work with my CV64/3D and Ariadne <>) > > How stupid is that on a scale of 1 to 10? From my point of view it's somewhere between 6 and 7. But i do understand P5 POV (it's just the effect of state-of-war between P5 and H&P). > > > According to P5 tech-support upgrades will be available as soon as > >flashburner program will be ready (NO, DO NOT USE scsi_xxx from scsi dir on > >P5 ftp site it is meant for Cyberstorm's only) > > They didn't mention *when*, did they? 45.16 is too old already :) Nope. Their answer was somewhat sparse... (my letter was full of various questions, symptoms and the like; their answer was only 2 line long... 1. They promised to make separate e-mail address for BPPC users <> 2. THe said that updater for BPPC flash rom will be available) I should be greatfull that Ralph Schmidt works for P5 because he was the only person who tried to help. -- Robert Ramiega | robert@pdi.net IRC: _Jedi_ | Don't underestimate Plukwa Zone Owner | http://plukwa.pdi.net/ | the power of Source From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 14:03:53 1998 Received: from matav.hu (firewall.matav.hu [145.236.254.102]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11583 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:57:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tiivs7.tii.matav.hu ([145.236.48.148]) by firewall.matav.hu with SMTP id <123009>; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:04:26 +0100 Received: from tombox.buvi.matav.hu by tiivs7.tii.matav.hu (MX V4.1 VAX) with SMTP; Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:55:48 MET Received: from tombox.buvi.matav.hu ([145.236.51.223]) by tombox.buvi.matav.hu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01760 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:58:47 +0200 Message-ID: <35222C10.C1D25C8@tombox.buvi.matav.hu> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:59:12 +0100 From: "Keresztes Tamás" Reply-To: tom@tombox.buvi.matav.hu Organization: Matáv Rt. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems References: <3.0.1.32.19980401094459.00b1152c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well it seems that there are a few problems with the PowerUP cards . But nobody talks about their speed . Are they fast enough or not ? Mark Howson wrote: > > > Not in this case. In all Blizzards PPC ppc.library and 68040.library is > >burnt in to the flashROM (ppc.library is indeed version 45.16 and > >68040.library in my case has version 43.4). So it doesn't matter what You > >put in libs: > From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 17:43:46 1998 Received: from nottingham.ac.uk (pat.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.40.194]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12258 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:34:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk) [128.243.40.43] by nottingham.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yKPW3-0000RE-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:33:27 +0100 Received: from (PPCJMZ.chemistry) [128.243.121.236] by unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yKPW2-0003FE-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:33:26 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980401163613.00b038d8@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> X-Sender: pczmhx@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 16:36:13 +0100 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" From: Mark Howson Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: <35222C10.C1D25C8@tombox.buvi.matav.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:59 PM 4/1/98 +0100, you wrote: >Well it seems that there are a few problems with the PowerUP cards . But >nobody talks about their speed . Are they fast enough or not ? They're *very* quick, obviously. **Roughly** (very roughly) 10 times as quick as my 040/25, but it could be a lot faster. DOOM flies, Quake should too (on a 320x256 screen, anyway), etc etc. I think a lot of us are still learning...I must try an 603ASM c2p sometime, just for fun :) Mark From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 18:05:01 1998 Received: from nottingham.ac.uk (pat.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.40.194]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12282 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:45:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from granby.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk (unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk) [128.243.40.43] by nottingham.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yKPfz-0000eG-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:43:43 +0100 Received: from (PPCJMZ.chemistry) [128.243.121.236] by unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yKPfz-0003z4-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:43:43 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980401164630.00b0391c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> X-Sender: pczmhx@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 16:46:30 +0100 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" From: Mark Howson Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: <19980401134414.46407@plukwa.pdi.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19980401094459.00b1152c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:44 PM 4/1/98 +0000, you wrote: > Well i learned this the hard way (i fought with my BPPC for a week and >still can't het it to work with my CV64/3D and Ariadne <fault it is Micronik's ZorroII daughter board fault>>) I've avoided the ZorroII board, as I only want a gfx card. I *was* going to wait for the magic Permedia card, but now... > From my point of view it's somewhere between 6 and 7. But i do understand >P5 POV (it's just the effect of state-of-war between P5 and H&P). That's charitable. I place it 9 or so :) Whatever H&P are doing, Phase 5 should 'defeat' it by producing /better software/ and providing more support. I find this approach *very* irritating, considering that library isn't even alpha by most people's standards. >2. THe said that updater for BPPC flash rom will be available) > I should be greatfull that Ralph Schmidt works for P5 because he was the >only person who tried to help. Yeah, I don't blame him. He seems overworked - is he the only BPPC programmer at Phase 5? Thanks for all your help :) Mark From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 19:23:53 1998 Received: from porsta.cs.Helsinki.FI (root@porsta.cs.Helsinki.FI [128.214.48.124]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12471 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:21:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from melkki.cs.Helsinki.FI (jxsaarin@melkki.cs.Helsinki.FI [128.214.48.122]) by porsta.cs.Helsinki.FI (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA02828 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:20:03 +0300 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:20:02 +0300 (EET DST) From: Jyrki O Saarinen To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980401163613.00b038d8@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I think a lot of us are still learning...I must try an 603ASM c2p sometime, > just for fun :) Just do it in C code, enough registers to get 100% free c2p. You just have to interleave the writes so that you write the results of the previous c2p iteration to CHIP-ram while c2ping the next 32 pixels. There is a point; much better idea to to have two chunky buffers, one is being rendered by PPC and one is being c2ped to CHIP-ram by 040/25, this makes 50Hz tmapped games possible in 320x256. From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 20:45:00 1998 Received: from cicero1.cybercity.dk (cicero1.cybercity.dk [195.8.135.242]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA12681 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:32:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from vip.cybercity.dk (usr02.cybercity.dk [195.8.128.202]) by cicero1.cybercity.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26967 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:30:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mike@anarki.dk) Received: from garbage.mike.dk (msx-0b-2-5.1033.cybercity.dk [195.8.140.38]) by vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id UAA21171 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:30:06 +0200 (CEST) Sender: mikeni@vip.cybercity.dk Message-ID: <35226AF8.5888BBF5@anarki.dk> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 16:27:36 +0000 From: Michael Nielsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SnoopDOS vs. CyberstormPPC References: <351FA481.MD-0.214.mclaughd@kdn0.attnet.or.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas McLaughlin wrote: > > On Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:06:18 -0800 (PST), Fred Wright had this to say about Re: ppc-amigaos-ld problems... > > > > I will give it a try and get back to you... > > > > I just got my PowerUP board installed yesterday, and determined > > empirically that SnoopDOS is usable with PATCHRAMLIB=NO in the tooltypes. > > This means that you lose the ability to track file accesses from ramlib, > > but it's better than nothing. The objects being looked for by ramlib can > > be seen by tracking OpenLibrary(), OpenDevice(), etc., but you don't get > > to see the actual full path for the files. > > Oops, forgot all about that. I'll add the tooltype in right now... > > Thanks for the info and enjoy your processer!!! Which version of snoopdos is this, I've found no trouble with snoopdos with my powerup card ? I'm using version 3.0, with the latest ppc.device, and 68060.libraries. mvh mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- email : mikeni@image.dk *Team Amiga* Web Page : http://www.image.dk/~mike --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 21:05:20 1998 Received: from amiga (amiga.u-net.com [194.119.174.100]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12768 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:02:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: by amiga.u-net.com (Amiga SMTPpost 1.04 December 9, 1994) id AA01; Wed, 1 Apr 98 19:00:20 GMT From: Keith Blakemore-Noble Organization: Mad Dog Software MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Serious Voodoo 1.388 (Registered to Keith Blakemore-Noble ) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980401094459.00b1152c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:58:58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <19980401.87D6B58.10F32@amiga.u-net.com> Mark Howson! How nice of you to call. Please, do come in... > At 06:11 PM 3/31/98 +0000, you wrote: > > > Not in this case. In all Blizzards PPC ppc.library and 68040.library is > >burnt in to the flashROM (ppc.library is indeed version 45.16 and > >68040.library in my case has version 43.4). So it doesn't matter what You > >put in libs: > > Thanks for confirming that :( > > How stupid is that on a scale of 1 to 10? Umm, probably around 1, I'd say. Why? Well, before complaining about what they have done, we should understand WHY they did it. The reason goes something like this .... In order to get the ppc card to work, one needs to ensure that one has installed the ppc.library and the 68040.library and (if appropriate) the 68060.library (which uses it's own stub-version of the 040 lib). Now, it seems that a great many users of big-box Amigas were plugging in their cards, and going "It doesn't work - what a pile of poo". What they had NOT done was to correctly install ALL of the necessary libraries. So, to me, it seems eminantly sensible to supply the card with the necessary libs already loaded into FlashROM - that way, anyone CAN just plug and play :) Of course, there is the downside which means that until they release the means of updating the Flash, you are stuck with an old lib :(( I really do hope they release that soon!!! However, on balance, I feel it is a good idea - certainly protects P5 from more complaints from some users who can't be bothered to install properly as they did inthe past... Of course, this does offer plenty more fodder for teh already paranoid WarpOS few, but then, they have never bothered with trivialities like "the truth" in the past, so they are hardly likely to concern themselves with that now, but I digress... > > According to P5 tech-support upgrades will be available as soon as > >flashburner program will be ready (NO, DO NOT USE scsi_xxx from scsi dir on > >P5 ftp site it is meant for Cyberstorm's only) > > They didn't mention *when*, did they? 45.16 is too old already :) I've no idea personally - I hope for your sake it is soon, and I expect it will be. What I woudl say is that once it IS released, then I foresee no problems when future uypgrades are released for teh lib - you'll be able to upgrade immediately. HTH and welcome to teh PowerAmiga club :) TTFN, Keith From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 21:23:44 1998 Received: from lamb.sas.com (root@lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA12802 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:11:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.8]) by lamb.sas.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04655 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:09:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from linen (inetgw02.unx.sas.com) by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA00117; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:09:51 -0500 Message-Id: <352290FD.3A33@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:09:49 -0500 From: Steve Krueger X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Subject: New SAS/C PPC patch available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beta 21 is now available at www.warped.com/~stevek and www.thule.no/~stevek Check the file 'manual.txt' for new features. sk From owner-amigappc-dev Wed Apr 1 21:24:07 1998 Received: from EURE.de (geul.eure.de [194.180.228.1]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12807 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:12:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eure.de 194.180.228.106 by EURE.de; Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:50:20 From: Andreas Kuessner Reply-To: eksec@EURE.de To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:02:56 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980401163613.00b038d8@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.5 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: Infect Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01-Apr-98, Mark Howson wrote: >At 12:59 PM 4/1/98 +0100, you wrote: >Well it seems that there are a few problems with the PowerUP cards . But= >nobody talks about their speed . Are they fast enough or not ? For example the most ppc effects of Wildfire\5_PPC are between 4 and 15 t= imes as fast on an ppc 604e_200 MHZ then on an 68060_50 MHZ bye, Andreas. >-- WFMH AmigaPPC-Dev ---------------------------------------------------= ---- -- = =2EoO---------------------------------------------------------------Oo. Andreas K=FCssner (Eksec/Infect!) E-Mail: eksec@eure.de homepage: http://www.oberland.com/amiga/wildfire/ Wildfire Project Manager, Infect! Amiga Entertainment Organizer =2EoO---------------------------------------------------------------Oo. From owner-amigappc-dev Thu Apr 2 02:23:47 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA15403 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 02:19:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from paix-alg-gw1-24.ncal.verio.com (fw@paix-alg-gw1-24.ncal.verio.com [207.21.130.215]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id QAA25406 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:18:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:17:49 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Wright X-Sender: fw@paix-alg-gw1-24.ncal.verio.com Reply-To: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SnoopDOS vs. CyberstormPPC In-Reply-To: <35226AF8.5888BBF5@anarki.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Michael Nielsen wrote: > Which version of snoopdos is this, I've found no trouble with > snoopdos with my powerup card ? I'm using version 3.0, with the > latest ppc.device, and 68060.libraries. I have SnoopDOS 3.0 and the latest libraries also. The failure isn't 100% reliable, and may depend on the SnoopDOS settings. I found that if I configure SnoopDOS to watch everything and run an application which opens lots of stuff, then it hangs on some OpenXXXX call (by no means the first). Changing the PATCHRAMLIB setting and trying the same thing again, it worked. Fred Wright From owner-amigappc-dev Thu Apr 2 02:23:54 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA15401 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 02:12:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from paix-alg-gw1-24.ncal.verio.com (fw@paix-alg-gw1-24.ncal.verio.com [207.21.130.215]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id QAA22475 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:11:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:11:03 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Wright X-Sender: fw@paix-alg-gw1-24.ncal.verio.com Reply-To: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Jyrki O Saarinen wrote: > There is a point; much better idea to to have two chunky buffers, one is > being rendered by PPC and one is being c2ped to CHIP-ram by 040/25, this > makes 50Hz tmapped games possible in 320x256. Is this really faster than doing both the rendering and the C2P on the PPC, with the 68K just doing a straight copy to CHIP (perhaps using MOVE16 if appropriate)? The point is that the PPC is faster at doing any real computation, but no faster than the 68K at the actual CHIP RAM accesses, which would be better done by the slower processor. Depending on the type of screen updating involved, it might also make sense to double buffer in CHIP RAM and use QBlit (or appropriately interleaved blitter control) to let the blitter do the actual screen update in parallel with the activities of both CPUs. Similar considerations (except the C2P part) might even apply to gfx cards, due to Zorro speed limitations. Fred Wright From owner-amigappc-dev Thu Apr 2 13:03:47 1998 Received: from feandil (feandil.lnet.lut.fi [157.24.104.151]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16254 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:44:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by feandil.lnet.lut.fi (Amiga SMTPpost 1.04 December 9, 1994) id AA01; Thu, 2 Apr 98 13:42:35 +0200 Received: by feandil.lnet.lut.fi (Amiga SMTPpost 1.04 December 9, 1994) id AA01; Thu, 2 Apr 98 13:41:57 +0200 Reply-To: tsuikki@lut.fi Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: (from "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" ) (on Wed, 01 Apr 98 16:11:03) Lines: 26 X-Mailer: ADMail 1.7 Copyright 1995 S.T.Brown From: tsuikki@feandil.lnet.lut.fi (Teemu Suikki) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 13:41:57 +0200 Organization: Petsoff Limited Partnership Message-ID: <19980402.81D77F0.CBB8@feandil.lnet.lut.fi> To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Greetings, Fred. > > There is a point; much better idea to to have two chunky buffers, one is > > being rendered by PPC and one is being c2ped to CHIP-ram by 040/25, this > Is this really faster than doing both the rendering and the C2P on the > PPC, with the 68K just doing a straight copy to CHIP (perhaps using MOVE16 68k is fast enough to do copy-speed c2p, at least with 68030/50 or higher. Copy-speed means that c2p takes exactly the same time as a simple straight copy would take. The chip ram is very slow. 68k chips are designed so that a pending write access doesn't prevent the processor from continue execution. So, after a chipram write, you can execute 5-30 "free" instructions, and then write next longword to chip. If you start next write too early, processor has to wait for the previous write to finish, and the free time is wasted. To put it short: It is faster to use 68k for c2p, because the PPC can use this time to do something useful. This makes sense even with graphics cards, WriteChunkyPixels() or WritePixelArray8() takes some time to execute.. -- int W,Y;main(){char*D="X`>@X@@~~`#~X~~##`##> "//"tsuikki@lut.fi IRC:Zuikkis" "# `>?X~#88` XC# ` #X## ` ~X~~ `@@",*S="\n""Petsoff Limited Partnership" ;for(Y=0;*++D;Y++)for(W=256;W/=2;)putchar((*D^64)&W?S[Y&7]&95:32);puts(S+8);} From owner-amigappc-dev Thu Apr 2 17:25:06 1998 Received: from plukwa.pdi.net (robert@plukwa.pdi.net [195.116.162.7]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16875 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:15:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 2027083976 invoked by uid 531); 2 Apr 1998 17:16:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19980402171642.57829@plukwa.pdi.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:16:42 +0000 From: Robert Ramiega To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems References: <3.0.1.32.19980401094459.00b1152c@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> <19980401.87D6B58.10F32@amiga.u-net.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980401.87D6B58.10F32@amiga.u-net.com>; from Keith Blakemore-Noble on Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 06:58:58PM +0000 Organization: PDi Ltd, Lodz, PL X-Personal: PlukwaZone Owner X-PGP-fingerprint: BB 1F 6D 5F CF AF 5A 67 E3 0C EA 68 E4 7F 74 B1 On Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 06:58:58PM +0000, Keith Blakemore-Noble wrote: > Mark Howson! How nice of you to call. Please, do come in... > > > At 06:11 PM 3/31/98 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > Not in this case. In all Blizzards PPC ppc.library and 68040.library is > > >burnt in to the flashROM (ppc.library is indeed version 45.16 and > > >68040.library in my case has version 43.4). So it doesn't matter what You > > >put in libs: > > > > How stupid is that on a scale of 1 to 10? > > Umm, probably around 1, I'd say. > Why? My bid was a bit higher for just one thing though otherwise i second what You have written > In order to get the ppc card to work, one needs to ensure that one has > installed the ppc.library and the 68040.library and (if appropriate) the > 68060.library (which uses it's own stub-version of the 040 lib). [snip] > > So, to me, it seems eminantly sensible to supply the card with the necessary > libs already loaded into FlashROM - that way, anyone CAN just plug and play > :) > > Of course, there is the downside which means that until they release the > means of updating the Flash, you are stuck with an old lib :(( I really do > hope they release that soon!!! And this alone is the reason i gave'em around 6. I don't think that this flashe updater is much different from that for CS PPC yet after a few weeks they didn't release Update for BPPC > > Of course, this does offer plenty more fodder for teh already paranoid > WarpOS few, but then, they have never bothered with trivialities like "the > truth" in the past, so they are hardly likely to concern themselves with > that now, but I digress... I remeber seeing Your name in my beloved thread PPC Compiler =o)) I think that P5 wanted to achive one more effect. THey wanted to end the confusion amongs both users and developers about which ppc kernel to use which is better/worse/usable/unsuable/ etc etc etc Sometime ago on powerup@lists.best.com Ralph Schmidt (or was it Dietrich Wolf in an interview for Amiga Nutta?) stated that just because of the stir WarpOS is causing amongst Amigants there was some drop in sales of PPC boards. On above mentioned list on of the users admited that he intended to buy PPC but seeing the mess on Usenet and on PowerUp list he delayed this and insted bought CS MkIII. I believe that there are more people heading this way. They will buy something else or won't buy anything and will sit in the corner waiting for the giants to end the war. H&P didn;t made any moves to solve this so P5 made their move (brutal? maybe.. at least this should soon solve soemthings) BTW Keith did You notice how the P5 move quieted H&P promoters? =o) > I've no idea personally - I hope for your sake it is soon, and I expect it > will be. > What I woudl say is that once it IS released, then I foresee no problems > when future uypgrades are released for teh lib - you'll be able to upgrade > immediately. Well I wouldn;t be so sure... in case of CS PPC updater all that should end in FlashROm is in updater itself so... > > HTH and welcome to teh PowerAmiga club :) In my case i have to wait... right now i have to choose between BPPC or CV64-3D/Ariadne =o((( I hope that Micronik will be able to help me.... -- Robert Ramiega | robert@pdi.net IRC: _Jedi_ | Don't underestimate Plukwa Zone Owner | http://plukwa.pdi.net/ | the power of Source From owner-amigappc-dev Thu Apr 2 23:04:45 1998 Received: from orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl (orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl [194.204.141.12]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA17839 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:57:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from server.fiber.net.pl ([195.117.208.50]) by orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAG3271 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:57:12 +0200 From: Admin To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:02:49 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980401134414.46407@plukwa.pdi.net> X-Mailer: YAM 2.0.0 beta10 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Organization: W.F.M.H. (http://wfmh.org.pl) Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> How stupid is that on a scale of 1 to 10? > = > From my point of view it's somewhere between 6 and 7. But i do understa= nd > P5 POV (it's just the effect of state-of-war between P5 and H&P). Please _STOP_ talking about that _*NOW*_. This is developer ML, not anti-= P5 one! -- = Admin From owner-amigappc-dev Fri Apr 3 01:23:53 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA18418 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 01:08:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from volans96.wco.com (fw@volans96.wco.com [207.48.88.96]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id PAA17481 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:07:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:07:01 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Wright X-Sender: fw@volans96.wco.com Reply-To: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: <19980402171642.57829@plukwa.pdi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Robert Ramiega wrote: > On Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 06:58:58PM +0000, Keith Blakemore-Noble wrote: > > > > In order to get the ppc card to work, one needs to ensure that one has > > installed the ppc.library and the 68040.library and (if appropriate) the > > 68060.library (which uses it's own stub-version of the 040 lib). > [snip] Of course they could explain the purpose of the libraries more clearly in the manual than just saying "be sure to install the software first". If someone *still* can't get it right with a clear explanation, then they probably shouldn't be installing their own hardware in the first place. The ppc.library isn't even necessary for the card to function with the 68K; it's only needed to actually use the PPC. In fact, renaming the library is the simplest way to disable the PPC when desired. In my case, following their instructions would have been bad advice, anyway. I already had the latest 680x0 and ppc libraries from the FTP site when my board arrived. I doubted that the files on the floppy would be newer, but checked anyway. All the files were dated in either September or October of *1991*, which either shows an incredible degree of prescience on P5's part, or a system with a badly screwed up clock over a period of weeks. The 68060.library was the identical length and version to the 43.1c beta; the 68040new.library was a slightly different length and same version. The PPC libraries were older versions. After inspecting the Installer script and concluding it wasn't going to install anything I didn't already have an equal or newer version of, I just ignored the disk. Admittedly the latter problem usually wouldn't apply to a first-time user, and upgrading users might be more likely to already understand, but taking this for granted in the documentation isn't a great idea. Speaking of upgrades, there's zero documentation on the upgrade using the 68K-less board. While the need to to transplant the 68K is obvious (although I'm not sure how they know whether it's going to be an 040 or 060), the board has an unpopulated oscillator position which is occupied in the one photograph where it's visible. I suspected it might need the oscillator transplanted as well as the 68K, but before heating up the soldering iron I looked at the clock pin of the 68K socket with a 'scope. Since a plausible clock was present, I decided it probably didn't need the third oscillator, and was apparently correct. It's also a good thing that I already understood the roles of the various timing jumpers, since they don't bother to mention that installing the card in a 16MHz A3000 requires moving the ROM and RAM timing jumpers (since it's becoming a 25MHz motherboard). > > > > So, to me, it seems eminantly sensible to supply the card with the necessary > > libs already loaded into FlashROM - that way, anyone CAN just plug and play > > :) > > > > Of course, there is the downside which means that until they release the > > means of updating the Flash, you are stuck with an old lib :(( I really do > > hope they release that soon!!! I think this whole process of putting software in ROM is getting out of hand. It's certainly important to have enough software in ROM to support boot drivers and the like, but putting "serious" software in ROM is unnecessary and makes it more difficult to maintain. The trouble with relying on flash ROM upgrades is that if anything goes wrong in the flashing process you may have a completely dead board. > Sometime ago on powerup@lists.best.com Ralph Schmidt (or was it Dietrich > Wolf in an interview for Amiga Nutta?) stated that just because of the stir > WarpOS is causing amongst Amigants there was some drop in sales of PPC > boards. On above mentioned list on of the users admited that he intended to > buy PPC but seeing the mess on Usenet and on PowerUp list he delayed this > and insted bought CS MkIII. I believe that there are more people heading > this way. They will buy something else or won't buy anything and will sit > in the corner waiting for the giants to end the war. That kind of battle benefits *nobody*. Reducing flexibility is usually not a good strategy in the long run, as it tends to make your products less attractive. MicroSoft can get away with that crap by being the 800-pound gorilla, but Phase5 probably won't be the only game in town forever. Remember when the Amiga first came out, how everyone selling graphics software benefited by having a standard file format that virtually any program could deal with, rather than a proliferation of proprietary formats? The best way for P5 to keep selling products is to keep making good products that are as flexible as possible. > BTW Keith did You notice how the P5 move quieted H&P promoters? =o) That may not be the only reason. StormC is still pretty buggy, though that could be expected to improve. Fred Wright From owner-amigappc-dev Fri Apr 3 03:43:59 1998 Received: from mail-r1.shlink.de (mail-r1.shlink.de [194.64.6.19]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA20341 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:35:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.shlink.de (194.64.6.3) by mail-r1.shlink.de with smtp (Smail3.2.0.95 #1) id m0yKvLz-00014aC; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:33:11 +0200 (MEST) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1I1xEMD5131asz2@ark.news.wwbnet.de> From: ARK@News.wwbnet.de (Andreas R. Kleinert) Path: apg.wwbnet.de!News.wwbnet.de Organization: PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 02:00:00 +0200 X-Mailer: MicroDot 1.17beta3 [REGISTERED 005131] References: <35222C10.C1D25C8@tombox.buvi.matav.hu> Received: by News.wwbnet.de ; Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:31:03 +0100 Received: by apg.wwbnet.de ; Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:11:17 +0100 X-Gateway: ZCONNECT apg.wwbnet.de [UNIX/Connect v0.76b1-t1] X-Comment-To: Keresztes Tam s X-ZC-TELEFON: 0271-22869 (PHONE/AM/FAX) - NO BBS X-ZC-POST: Sandstrasse 1, D-57072 Siegen, Germany. You wrote at 01.04.1998/14:59:12: > Well it seems that there are a few problems with the PowerUP cards . But > nobody talks about their speed . Are they fast enough or not ? Well, that's the developer mailing list, what do you expect us talking about ? Anyone else lurking there... ? 8-) -- Andreas_Kleinert@t-online.de | ARK@amigaworld.com | Fido 2:2457/350.18 ARK@superview.ftn.neckar-alb.de | ARK@News.wwbnet.de | - *SuperView* - PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX - http://home.t-online.de/home/Andreas_Kleinert/ Image Engineer Registration Site Europe --- Software Engineering -- MicroDot 1.17beta3 registered From owner-amigappc-dev Fri Apr 3 03:44:07 1998 Received: from mail-r1.shlink.de (mail-r1.shlink.de [194.64.6.19]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA20339 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:35:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.shlink.de (194.64.6.3) by mail-r1.shlink.de with smtp (Smail3.2.0.95 #1) id m0yKvLz-00014VC; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:33:11 +0200 (MEST) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1I1vhMD5131aUz1@ark.news.wwbnet.de> From: ARK@News.wwbnet.de (Andreas R. Kleinert) Path: apg.wwbnet.de!News.wwbnet.de Organization: PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX Subject: Re: SnoopDOS vs. CyberstormPPC Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 02:00:00 +0200 X-Mailer: MicroDot 1.17beta3 [REGISTERED 005131] References: Received: by News.wwbnet.de ; Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:31:03 +0100 Received: by apg.wwbnet.de ; Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:11:17 +0100 X-Gateway: ZCONNECT apg.wwbnet.de [UNIX/Connect v0.76b1-t1] X-Comment-To: Fred Wright X-ZC-TELEFON: 0271-22869 (PHONE/AM/FAX) - NO BBS X-ZC-POST: Sandstrasse 1, D-57072 Siegen, Germany. You wrote at 01.04.1998/05:38:06: > Most system patches run the risk of causing problems due to unanticipated > increases in stack usage, and SnoopDOS is certainly no exception. This isn't just because of the patch - it's a danger with ramlib even without patching anything. Consider, that a central point of the OS is so weekly protected and easy to be deadlocked... > However, the problem motivating the PATCHRAMLIB option, AIUI, is related > to a conflict in the use of a signal. Since the symptom of this partiular > problem is that OpenLibrary() et al *sometimes* hang when being tracked by > SnoopDOS *and* ppc.library is active, this sounds more like the sort of > trouble involved. I'm not sure, which kind of signal you're talking about, but I've already pointed out, that this problem may as well occur on a clean 68k system. > It's interesting to note that ramlib crashes are a fairly common > consequence of memory trashing. Perhaps this is because so many ramlib > PCs tend to get left around on stacks? What do you mean by left on the stacks ? If ramlib crashed once, the whole system is deadlocked, so there is not chance that it would happen a second time... (Ramlib needs to become multithreaded and make use of some internal Exec semaphore protection instead of using Forbid/Permit) -- Andreas_Kleinert@t-online.de | ARK@amigaworld.com | Fido 2:2457/350.18 ARK@superview.ftn.neckar-alb.de | ARK@News.wwbnet.de | - *SuperView* - PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX - http://home.t-online.de/home/Andreas_Kleinert/ Image Engineer Registration Site Europe --- Software Engineering Start it up: LOAD "WIN95", 8, 1 -- MicroDot 1.17beta3 registered From owner-amigappc-dev Fri Apr 3 04:03:52 1998 Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (root@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA20367 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:54:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from daneel.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.59] EHLO daneel.nvg.ntnu.no ident: kolla [port 13319]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <49198-10492>; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:53:14 +0200 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:48:20 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kolbj=F8rn_Barmen?= X-Sender: kolla@daneel.nvg.ntnu.no To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: LinuxPPC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Jimmy Schmidt wrote: > Have you seen that? > There is a Linux-PPC version for Amiga available at ... > > ftp://sunsite.auc.dk:21/pub/os/linux/680x0/testing/apus > > ... the only problem is, that there is no goot doc 4 installation yet. > > I've tried lots of things, but didn't get it work right now. > Has somebody any experience with that. > Could you help me ? I managed to boot the first kernel, after that I havent got any of the bootstrappers to work. So, yes, I've done it, but no, right now I'm wating for new boorstrappers that work with the current kernel :) Kolbjĝrn Barmen | a3k/o6o/6o4e/AmigaOS/MacOS/Linux-PPC | // T e a m | a12ooCT/o3o/Linux-m68k a6oo/o3o/AmigaOS | \XX/ A M I G A Nettverksgruppa | "I met the Amiga and fell in love..." | ğğ Norwegian University of Technology and Science ĞĞ From owner-amigappc-dev Fri Apr 3 12:03:56 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21114 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:53:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from paix-alg-gw1-13.ncal.verio.com (fw@paix-alg-gw1-13.ncal.verio.com [207.21.130.204]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id BAA02645 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 01:52:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 01:51:58 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Wright X-Sender: fw@paix-alg-gw1-13.ncal.verio.com Reply-To: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SnoopDOS vs. CyberstormPPC In-Reply-To: <1I1vhMD5131aUz1@ark.news.wwbnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Andreas R. Kleinert wrote: > I'm not sure, which kind of signal you're talking about, but I've already > pointed out, that this problem may as well occur on a clean 68k system. I'm sure it can occur on a clean 68K system, which is why the option was already available before ppc.library existed. Consult the SnoopDOS guide for a description of the original problem. Normally, SnoopDOS patches ramlib to use a different signal than it normally would, to get around a conflict with semaphores. I suspect the patched version conflicts with the ppc.library use of signals, causing frequent hangs when ppc.library is active. Turning off PATCHRAMLIB causes it to leave ramlib alone, but to avoid the other trouble it avoids tracing any calls from ramlib altogether. Fred Wright From owner-amigappc-dev Sat Apr 4 03:40:30 1998 Received: from cicero1.cybercity.dk (cicero1.cybercity.dk [195.8.135.242]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00388 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 03:17:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from vip.cybercity.dk (usr00.cybercity.dk [195.8.128.200]) by cicero1.cybercity.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10121 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:11:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mike@anarki.dk) Received: from garbage.mike.dk (msx-09-2-28.1033.cybercity.dk [195.8.139.189]) by vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id XAA20698 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:11:15 +0200 (CEST) Sender: mikeni@vip.cybercity.dk Message-ID: <352533BE.3C5A3816@anarki.dk> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 19:08:46 +0000 From: Michael Nielsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SnoopDOS vs. CyberstormPPC References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fred Wright wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Michael Nielsen wrote: > > > Which version of snoopdos is this, I've found no trouble with > > snoopdos with my powerup card ? I'm using version 3.0, with the > > latest ppc.device, and 68060.libraries. > > I have SnoopDOS 3.0 and the latest libraries also. The failure isn't 100% > reliable, and may depend on the SnoopDOS settings. I found that if I > configure SnoopDOS to watch everything and run an application which opens > lots of stuff, then it hangs on some OpenXXXX call (by no means the > first). Changing the PATCHRAMLIB setting and trying the same thing again, > it worked. Hmm, ok but then I don't run snoopdos that often, and usually only to track one problem. It's worth noting though :->. mvh mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- email : mikeni@anarki.dk *Team Amiga* Web Page : http://www.image.dk/~mike --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-amigappc-dev Sat Apr 4 15:30:34 1998 Received: from server.fiber.net.pl (server.fiber.net.pl [195.117.208.101]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00876 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:27:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ammi.mclink.it ([195.110.128.1]) by server.fiber.net.pl (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA2540 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:43:22 +0200 Received: from mclink.it ([195.110.144.36]) by ammi.mclink.it (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA23453 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:40:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Massimiliano Marras To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:40:30 MET-1MEST Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <351B03CD.80F@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.4 [040] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Subject: Unions & SAS PPC? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Why the following code typedef struct { float r; float g; float b; union {float w; float a;}; // Error 77 identifier expected } Color4; produces an error 77 "identifier expected" in the union line with SAS/C PPC (Beta21) while it compiles fine with SAS/C 6.58 68K? Unions works if I do a typedef union {float a; float w;} aw; and use aw in the Color4 structure above. This happens with every union in my code, if this is something I should know please forgive my ignorance. I think both compiler have the same options set. Thanks, Massimiliano From owner-amigappc-dev Sat Apr 4 17:15:51 1998 Received: from spode (user-38ldbpq.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.175.58]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00736 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 17:13:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by spode.mindspring.net (Amiga SMTPpost 1.04 December 9, 1994) id AA01; Sat, 4 Apr 98 10:10:55 Subject: Re: Unions & SAS PPC? In-Reply-To: from Massimiliano Marras at Sat, 04 Apr 1998 08:40:30 MET-1MEST From: sekruege@mindspring.com (Steve Krueger) X-Mailer: GMail 0.55 (11.5.95) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Date: Sat, 4 Apr 98 10:10:55 Message-ID: <19980404.83FD9A0.99C7@spode.mindspring.net> The PPC compiler doesn't have the #define to support anonymous unions, while the 68k does. I'll turn that on for the next version. sk : : Why the following code : : typedef struct { : float r; : float g; : float b; : union {float w; float a;}; // Error 77 identifier expected : } Color4; : : produces an error 77 "identifier expected" in the union line with SAS/C PPC : (Beta21) while it compiles fine with SAS/C 6.58 68K? : : Unions works if I do a : : typedef union {float a; float w;} aw; : : and use aw in the Color4 structure above. : : This happens with every union in my code, if this is something I should know : please forgive my ignorance. I think both compiler have the same options set. : : Thanks, : Massimiliano : : -- WFMH AmigaPPC-Dev ------------------------------------------------------- : http://amiga.com.pl/lists : -- -- |__ o\ ______ | W \O __________ /__ | H\_ __ ___/_ //_/ | /-\ _(__ )_ ,< | / \ /____/ /_/|_| | sekruege@mindspring.com From owner-amigappc-dev Sat Apr 4 21:18:43 1998 Received: from rock101.genie.net (genie.com [199.164.140.11]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00346 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:12:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rock103.genie.net (rock103.is.ge.com [204.90.131.103]) by rock101.genie.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12157 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:10:49 GMT Received: (from uucp@localhost) by rock103.genie.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16438 for amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 19:10:49 GMT From: k.barkley@genie.geis.com Message-Id: <199804041910.TAA16438@rock103.genie.net> Received: by (genie.)rock103.genie.net ( 2rem/1.44 ) ; Sat, 4 Apr 98 19:10:49 GMT ( from inet# ; Sat, 4 Apr 98 19:10:41 GMT ) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 98 19:03:00 GMT To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl X-genie-QK-From: K.BARKLEY X-genie-QK-Id: 5377616 X-genie-Gateway-Id: 873313 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: PPC Speed Someone asked about PPC speed. I just installed SCPPC B21 for my new PPC and ran a test program I call testpi. (I first ran it on an IBM 370 back when I was in high school, but I digress) The program takes two random numbers between 0 and 1 and sums the squares. If that result is less than 1, it is inside the unit circle and considered a "hit." Do this a bnch of times and the ratio of hits to tries is pi/4. (source code available on request) Anyway, I wrote a quick and dirty ansi-c program to do this 10,000,000 times and compiled it on an HP 9000/720 at work, for the 68K and the ppc using the new HUNK format. (Thanks, Steve!) I compiled for the 68040 +68881, but no optimizations. Here are the results: CPU Time for 10,000,000 iterations HP 720 77 s M68K 86 s PPC 13 s As you can see, the PPC is clearly the winner. However, it should be pointed out that the HP is running X-windows on top of HP-UX, and the 68040 is running AmigaDos and Intuition, while the PPC is only running the kernal which I hope is just doing nothing but waiting for my single program to tell it to do something. 8^) I am sure that as we get more programs using the PPC side it will bog a bit with other tasks. (Just what does CyberGraphX do with the PPC anyway?) Keith Barkley barkleyk@macom.com From owner-amigappc-dev Sun Apr 5 00:58:45 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00852 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:50:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from paix-alg-gw1-47.ncal.verio.com (fw@paix-alg-gw1-47.ncal.verio.com [207.21.130.238]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id OAA23324 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:48:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:48:27 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Wright X-Sender: fw@paix-alg-gw1-47.ncal.verio.com Reply-To: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: PPC Speed In-Reply-To: <199804041910.TAA16438@rock103.genie.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 4 Apr 1998 k.barkley@genie.geis.com wrote: > As you can see, the PPC is clearly the winner. However, it should be > pointed out that the HP is running X-windows on top of HP-UX, and the > 68040 is running AmigaDos and Intuition, while the PPC is only > running the kernal which I hope is just doing nothing but waiting for > my single program to tell it to do something. 8^) On a "clean" system with a single purely computational task running, I doubt that the AmigaOS overhead amounts to more than a couple of percent. Even a 7.16MHz 68000 isn't very busy on an idle system (assuming you don't move the mouse). Of course if you start running lots of "do something on every VBLANK" hacks, this could change. HP-UX plus X could well be a different story. > I am sure that as we get more programs using the PPC side it will bog > a bit with other tasks. (Just what does CyberGraphX do with the PPC > anyway?) AFAIK CGX doesn't actually *use* the PPC for anything currently; the PPC version just uses PPC-compatible alignments for its data. I don't know exactly which things don't work if you use the non-PPC version of CGX on a PPC system (which might be desirable until the mismatched FreeMem bug is fixed). BTW, I tried the PPC version of Dhrystone from Aminet, and found that if I try to run it directly (relying on the LoadSeg patch) it crashes, but if I use runelf explicitly it works. I haven't checked yet to see if this might be a conflict between ElfLoadSeg and SegTracker. Fred Wright From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 6 16:38:46 1998 Received: from porsta.cs.Helsinki.FI (root@porsta.cs.Helsinki.FI [128.214.48.124]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA09500 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:37:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from huovari.cs.Helsinki.FI (jxsaarin@huovari.cs.Helsinki.FI [128.214.9.115]) by porsta.cs.Helsinki.FI (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA18300 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:35:01 +0300 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:34:49 +0300 (EET DST) From: Jyrki O Saarinen To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: New A1200 board problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Fred Wright wrote: > > There is a point; much better idea to to have two chunky buffers, one is > > being rendered by PPC and one is being c2ped to CHIP-ram by 040/25, this > > makes 50Hz tmapped games possible in 320x256. > > Is this really faster than doing both the rendering and the C2P on the > PPC, with the 68K just doing a straight copy to CHIP (perhaps using MOVE16 Sure it is. 68K can do the C2P or copying to video memory while PPC renders the next frame. > Depending on the type of screen updating involved, it might also make > sense to double buffer in CHIP RAM and use QBlit (or appropriately > interleaved blitter control) to let the blitter do the actual screen > update in parallel with the activities of both CPUs. You still have to transfer the image to CHIP-ram. From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 6 18:59:45 1998 Received: from orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl (orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl [194.204.141.12]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09930 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:51:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from server.fiber.net.pl ([194.204.141.234]) by orka.szczecin.tpnet.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAF3877 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:50:14 +0200 From: Marcin Orlowski To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 23:12:34 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <351B847C.D3E4D44E@dotweb.dk> X-Mailer: YAM 2.0.0 beta10 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Organization: W.F.M.H. (http://wfmh.org.pl) Subject: Re: Pre/box rewrite ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dnia 27-Mar-98, Joachim Larsen napisa=B3: > I was thinking about Phase 5's announcement of their Pre/box project > re: http://www.phase5.de/news/preboxe.html > And the impact on the porting efforts . The Quad cpu design would make > it necessary to rewrite alot of code to make it support ppc > multiprocessing no ? or would the solution simply be a 68k emulator ? If you want to have parallel processing you have to implement it. If you want e.g. your application to use 4 cpus to e.g. process the image, you should create 4 tasks processing 1/4 of image each. The kernel should handle the rest. You can start developing now, as you can get #of CPUs on board (currently 1 ;-) already from the kernel. -- = My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Marcin http://wfmh.org.pl/~carlos/ mailto:carlos@wfmh.org.pl From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 6 23:45:41 1998 Received: from smtp02.iafrica.com (smtp02.iafrica.com [196.7.0.140]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00441 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:39:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iafrica.com [196.31.83.43] (reddwarf) by smtp02.iafrica.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yMJXP-0000h7-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:34:44 +0200 From: Johan Hofmeyer To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 23:30:37 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.4 [040] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Subject: Re: Pre/box rewrite ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 06-Apr-98, Marcin Orlowski wrote: >Dnia 27-Mar-98, Joachim Larsen napisa=B3: >> I was thinking about Phase 5's announcement of their Pre/box project >> re: http://www.phase5.de/news/preboxe.html >> And the impact on the porting efforts . The Quad cpu design would make= >> it necessary to rewrite alot of code to make it support ppc >> multiprocessing no ? or would the solution simply be a 68k emulator ? >If you want to have parallel processing you have to implement it. >If you want e.g. your application to use 4 cpus to e.g. process >the image, you should create 4 tasks processing 1/4 of image >each. The kernel should handle the rest. You can start developing >now, as you can get #of CPUs on board (currently 1 ;-) already >from the kernel. Do you think this would be something similar to the DRS6000 Unix = implementation where a "task" could be executed as having an certain level of affinity to a processor (thus bound to processor (x) where x is one of a number of available processors?) It would be nice, as this would guarantee you could run 4 tasks on different processors. :-) Btw, this does have implications for current PPC developments, does it not? Basically I will have to remove all 68k code from my mixed binaries for the pre/box, or would this run under some form of emulation? (Actually I hope they add the option of having a real 68k cpu.) = From owner-amigappc-dev Tue Apr 7 03:31:29 1998 Received: from raleigh6-206.dyn.interpath.net (raleigh6-206.dyn.interpath.net [207.59.126.206]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02893 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:30:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: by raleigh6-206.dyn.interpath.net (Interworks_SMTPpost 8.102 February 12, 1997) id AA01; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:27:16 Received: by raleigh6-206.dyn.interpath.net (Interworks_SMTPpost 8.102 February 12, 1997) id AA01; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:27:04 From: Jim Cooper Reply-To: jamie@interpath.com Organization: Dis MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Serious Voodoo 1.329 (Registered to Jamie Cooper ) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Pre/box rewrite ? Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:27:04 (+0500) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <19980406.8380510.12066@raleigh6-206.dyn.interpath.net> In "Re: Pre/box rewrite ?", Johan Hofmeyer wrote: > On 06-Apr-98, Marcin Orlowski wrote: > >Dnia 27-Mar-98, Joachim Larsen napisa³: > >> I was thinking about Phase 5's announcement of their Pre/box project > >> re: http://www.phase5.de/news/preboxe.html > >> And the impact on the porting efforts . The Quad cpu design would make > >> it necessary to rewrite alot of code to make it support ppc > >> multiprocessing no ? or would the solution simply be a 68k emulator ? > > >If you want to have parallel processing you have to implement it. > >If you want e.g. your application to use 4 cpus to e.g. process > >the image, you should create 4 tasks processing 1/4 of image > >each. The kernel should handle the rest. You can start developing > >now, as you can get #of CPUs on board (currently 1 ;-) already > >from the kernel. > > Do you think this would be something similar to the DRS6000 Unix > implementation where a "task" could be executed as having an > certain level of affinity to a processor (thus bound to processor (x) > where x is one of a number of available processors?) It would be > nice, as this would guarantee you could run 4 tasks on different > processors. :-) Why? A proper load-balancing system will run your 4 tasks on each of the 4 different CPUs _if_ they are all equally idle. Otherwise, you _want_ them all to run on the same CPU, if one CPU is essentially idle while the other 3 are at 90%. In other words - this 'affinity' idea is a weak method of proper load-balancing. It is a way of forcing the Developer to do something the OS should be doing, and would usually do much better... > Btw, this does have implications for current PPC developments, > does it not? Basically I will have to remove all 68k code from my > mixed binaries for the pre/box, or would this run under some form > of emulation? (Actually I hope they add the option of having a > real 68k cpu.) I would _much_ prefer that they do _not_ have a 68k CPU, or even the option of adding one. I'd rather get away from all the old code. For those things I _need_ to run, a 68K emulator should be plenty fast enough, if properly coded. Dave Haynie & others have postulated that a PPC 604e @ 200MHz should be able to emulate an '060 @ approximately 50MHz equivalent speed. That ought to be enough for anyone to run old stuff... From owner-amigappc-dev Thu Apr 9 01:31:38 1998 Received: from legolas.mdh.se (root@legolas.mdh.se [130.238.251.203]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA11676 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:14:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from legolas.mdh.se (adb94hbd@legolas.mdh.se [130.238.251.203]) by legolas.mdh.se (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA11627 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:12:22 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:12:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: Henrik Berglund SdU X-Sender: adb94hbd@legolas.mdh.se To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Subject: Re: Linuxppc (fwd) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi I ones had a 486 ps/2 with mca-bus that i installed slackware linux on and at that time i did only have a a500, now i have an a1200 with a blizzard 603e ppc-160mhz 040-25mhz 34meg ram 2xCdrom and 527Mb hardrive. and i want to try to install linux ppc, i did some kernel hacking on mca linux (only compiled my own kernels and corected some minor things) I have the kernel and startup program from sunsite.auc.dk/local/os/linux/680x0/testing/apus but where is the rest? i have found something that might be the rest of the ppc linux distribution http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/systems/linux/linuxppc/ is the base.pax.gz the basic installation? and what is pax some kind of archiver? Henrik Berglund On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Marcin Orlowski wrote: > Hi, > > We released the first beta version of a Linux 2.1.79 port to Phase5's > Amiga PowerUp hardware Thursday last week. A kernel image and kernel > diffs (relative to linux-2.1.79-m68k) can be found at: > > sunsite.auc.dk/local/os/linux/680x0/testing/apus > > The kernel is still in beta state and is not suitable for users. We > just decided it was time that we got some feedback from other hackers > - and to let everyone know that APUS (Amiga PowerUp Systems) support > is work in progress. > > Incidently, the port has been at it's current state for a couple of > months, but we have had some problems with Phase5 which have now been > resolved. Phase5 is very interested in seeing this port completed and > has been very helpful lately. We appreciate this very much. > From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 13 08:34:42 1998 Received: from mail-r1.shlink.de (mail-r1.shlink.de [194.64.6.19]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02645 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:18:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.shlink.de (194.64.6.3) by mail-r1.shlink.de with smtp (Smail3.2.0.101 #9) id m0yOcXv-00014HC; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:16:47 +0200 (MEST) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1MLpbMD5131aez3@ark.news.wwbnet.de> From: ARK@News.wwbnet.de (Andreas R. Kleinert) Path: apg.wwbnet.de!News.wwbnet.de Organization: PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX Subject: Re: Pre/box rewrite ? Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:00:00 +0200 X-Mailer: MicroDot 1.17beta3 [REGISTERED 005131] References: Received: by News.wwbnet.de ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:14:23 +0100 Received: by apg.wwbnet.de ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:31:38 +0100 X-Gateway: ZCONNECT apg.wwbnet.de [UNIX/Connect v0.76b1-t1] X-Comment-To: Johan Hofmeyer X-ZC-TELEFON: 0271-22869 (PHONE/AM/FAX) - NO BBS X-ZC-POST: Sandstrasse 1, D-57072 Siegen, Germany. You wrote at 06.04.1998/01:30:37: > Btw, this does have implications for current PPC developments, > does it not? Basically I will have to remove all 68k code from my > mixed binaries for the pre/box, or would this run under some form > of emulation? (Actually I hope they add the option of having a > real 68k cpu.) One probably could reserve one of the CPUs for 68k emulation - or, different approach, run a new 'emulator task' on a different CPU for each 68k task... (so, as long as you don't run more than 4 full-power 68k applications, they won't slow down each other - most normal tasks are 'waiting' 90 percent of the time, anyway.) -- Andreas_Kleinert@t-online.de | ARK@amigaworld.com | Fido 2:2457/350.18 ARK@superview.ftn.neckar-alb.de | ARK@News.wwbnet.de | - *SuperView* - PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX - http://home.t-online.de/home/Andreas_Kleinert/ Image Engineer Registration Site Europe --- Software Engineering -- MicroDot 1.17beta3 registered From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 13 08:34:53 1998 Received: from mail-r1.shlink.de (mail-r1.shlink.de [194.64.6.19]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02647 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:18:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.shlink.de (194.64.6.3) by mail-r1.shlink.de with smtp (Smail3.2.0.101 #9) id m0yOcXx-00014SC; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:16:49 +0200 (MEST) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1MLm2MD5131asz2@ark.news.wwbnet.de> From: ARK@News.wwbnet.de (Andreas R. Kleinert) Path: apg.wwbnet.de!News.wwbnet.de Organization: PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX Subject: Re: Pre/box rewrite ? Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:00:00 +0200 X-Mailer: MicroDot 1.17beta3 [REGISTERED 005131] References: Received: by News.wwbnet.de ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:14:23 +0100 Received: by apg.wwbnet.de ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:31:38 +0100 X-Gateway: ZCONNECT apg.wwbnet.de [UNIX/Connect v0.76b1-t1] X-Comment-To: Marcin Orlowski X-ZC-TELEFON: 0271-22869 (PHONE/AM/FAX) - NO BBS X-ZC-POST: Sandstrasse 1, D-57072 Siegen, Germany. You wrote at 06.04.1998/01:12:34: > If you want to have parallel processing you have to implement it. > If you want e.g. your application to use 4 cpus to e.g. process > the image, you should create 4 tasks processing 1/4 of image > each. The kernel should handle the rest. You can start developing > now, as you can get #of CPUs on board (currently 1 ;-) already > from the kernel. And what about changing the (PPC) scheduler in a way, that the first PPC task is forced to run on CPU #1, the second one on CPU #2, ... and so on - task #5 then again on CPU #1... Actually, would mean to split the PPC-Kernel into four kernels, which would have to synchronize with each other and ppc.library (mainly concerning the message system). When running more than one PPC task, i.e. having a multithreaded OS and/or multithreaded applications, this might work even better than specifically adjusting certain applications - although the approach basically is the same ;-) -- Andreas_Kleinert@t-online.de | ARK@amigaworld.com | Fido 2:2457/350.18 ARK@superview.ftn.neckar-alb.de | ARK@News.wwbnet.de | - *SuperView* - PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX - http://home.t-online.de/home/Andreas_Kleinert/ Image Engineer Registration Site Europe --- Software Engineering -- MicroDot 1.17beta3 registered From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 13 09:54:41 1998 Received: from hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au (jamesm@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au [138.80.116.6]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02717 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:41:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from jamesm@localhost) by hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24327 for amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:09:08 +0930 (CST) From: James McArthur Message-Id: <199804130739.RAA24327@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au> Subject: Re: Pre/box rewrite ? To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:09:08 +0930 (CST) In-Reply-To: <1MLm2MD5131asz2@ark.news.wwbnet.de> from "Andreas R. Kleinert" at Apr 12, 98 02:00:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, > And what about changing the (PPC) scheduler in a way, that > the first PPC task is forced to run on CPU #1, the second one > on CPU #2, ... and so on - task #5 then again on CPU #1... One of the lecturers at the Uni here gave an impressive presentation on 'Data Flow Languages'1. Programmes could be broken down so far that they really soley on data from the rest of the programme before they can 'run'. One part of the programme executes as far as it can before it needs the results of another part of the programme. The example that was given was calculating the discriminant, where each part of the code could execute out of order, and the OS automatically executed each code segment on a specific CPU. (Interestingly, he said that he was able to remove the CPU cards in realtime, and the OS was able to reallocate the code segments for the remaining processors.) Either way, it was really interesting, and all through it I thought 'hmm.. PowerUP would work well in this system' :) 1 The article can be found in the IEEE annals vol 16, No4, 1994 -- James McArthur Amiga 4000/060 CSPPC 150 CyberVision64/3D 4Mb 16Mb jamesm@remove.this.it.ntu.edu.au From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 13 13:54:43 1998 Received: from hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au (jamesm@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au [138.80.116.6]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03387 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:37:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from jamesm@localhost) by hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02428 for amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:04:48 +0930 (CST) From: James McArthur Message-Id: <199804131134.VAA02428@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au> Subject: Re: MacEmuSurvey To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:04:48 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Has anyone else seen this survey (I think it was posted here a little while ago?) The author forgot one question.. 5a. Would you buy a PowerPC Mac Emulator if it was WarpOS only? [ ] - Yes [X] - No Just thought I should add that; the survey clearly leaves out the option of making it clear that some people dont wish WarpOS only programmes to be created. -- James McArthur Amiga 4000/060 CSPPC 150 CyberVision64/3D 4Mb 16Mb jamesm@remove.this.it.ntu.edu.au From owner-amigappc-dev Mon Apr 13 22:54:46 1998 Received: from serv1.is1.u-net.net (serv1.is1.u-net.net [194.119.130.9]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04483 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:35:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from amiga.u-net.com [194.119.174.100] by serv1.is1.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0yOpzH-0002AV-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:37:55 +0100 From: Keith Blakemore-Noble To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:32:34 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199804131134.VAA02428@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au> X-Mailer: YAM 2.0.0 Preview3 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Re[2]: MacEmuSurvey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Has anyone else seen this survey (I think it was posted here a little > while ago?) > > The author forgot one question.. > > 5a. Would you buy a PowerPC Mac Emulator if it was WarpOS only? > > [ ] - Yes > [X] - No > > Just thought I should add that; the survey clearly leaves out the option > of making it clear that some people dont wish WarpOS only programmes to be > created. Yeah, I noticed that too (I spotted the survey on AmiNet). But then, given the author of the survey (Mr Haeusser) is fanatically pro-WarpOS and even more fanatically anti-P5 / anyti-ppc.library, I guess we shoudldn't be too surprised :(( I guess all we can do is clearly mark the above as an additional response for now. TTFN, Keith From owner-amigappc-dev Tue Apr 14 07:34:46 1998 Received: from hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au (jamesm@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au [138.80.116.6]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07332 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:21:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from jamesm@localhost) by hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20204 for amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:48:51 +0930 (CST) From: James McArthur Message-Id: <199804140518.OAA20204@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au> Subject: Re: Re[2]: MacEmuSurvey To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:48:51 +0930 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Keith Blakemore-Noble" at Apr 13, 98 09:32:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, > But then, given the author of the survey (Mr Haeusser) is fanatically > pro-WarpOS and even more fanatically anti-P5 / anyti-ppc.library, I guess > we shoudldn't be too surprised :(( Ah, I didnt pick that; makes sense now :) -- James McArthur Amiga 4000/060 CSPPC 150 CyberVision64/3D 4Mb 16Mb jamesm@remove.this.it.ntu.edu.au From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Wed Apr 15 03:54:58 1998 Received: from mail-r1.shlink.de (mail-r1.shlink.de [194.64.6.19]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12513 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:41:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.shlink.de (194.64.6.3) by mail-r1.shlink.de with smtp (Smail3.2.0.101 #9) id m0yPHAA-00014YC; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:38:58 +0200 (MEST) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1M1SRMD5131aUz1@ark.news.wwbnet.de> From: ARK@News.wwbnet.de (Andreas R. Kleinert) Subject: Re: Pre/box rewrite ? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:00:00 +0200 References: <199804130739.RAA24327@hakea.cs.ntu.edu.au> Received: by News.wwbnet.de ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:35:36 +0100 Received: by apg.wwbnet.de ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:11:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list You wrote at 13.04.1998/18:39:08: > One of the lecturers at the Uni here gave an impressive presentation on > 'Data Flow Languages'1. Programmes could be broken down so far that they > really soley on data from the rest of the programme before they can 'run'. > One part of the programme executes as far as it can before it needs the results > of another part of the programme. Of course - but splitting programmes that way is much more sophisticated. On the other hand, both ideas don't contradict to each other - as soon as powerUP get's its own (sub)task creation mechanism one could make use of that kind of multithreading. Instead, seems to fit perfectly - I mean, I just mentioned the scheduler, while you talked about code design. > The example that was given was calculating the discriminant, where each > part of the code could execute out of order, and the OS automatically executed > each code segment on a specific CPU. (Interestingly, he said that he was able > to remove the CPU cards in realtime, and the OS was able to reallocate the > code segments for the remaining processors.) > > Either way, it was really interesting, and all through it I thought 'hmm.. > PowerUP would work well in this system' :) IMHO there's the little problem, that most developers don't even intend to put much work in porting their 68k applications to PPC (i.e. extracting the calculation-intensive parts for PPC recompilation), so it might become another problem to motivate them to invest even more work in completely redesigning their code. I mean, design of that kind of code has it's own scientific discipline ;-) > 1 The article can be found in the IEEE annals vol 16, No4, 1994 I may take a look there. -- Andreas_Kleinert@t-online.de | ARK@amigaworld.com | Fido 2:2457/350.18 ARK@superview.ftn.neckar-alb.de | ARK@News.wwbnet.de | - *SuperView* - PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX - http://home.t-online.de/home/Andreas_Kleinert/ Image Engineer Registration Site Europe --- Software Engineering Using ISO 8859-1? Do you see İ as copyright, ÷ as division and ½ as 1/2? -- MicroDot 1.17beta3 registered From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Fri Apr 17 11:24:01 1998 Received: from mail.onlineloop.com (root@maerz.vbs.at [194.152.167.73]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA21408 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:59:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from onlineloop.com (artline.onlineloop.com [194.152.178.66]) by mail.onlineloop.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10700 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:59:59 +0200 From: Guenter Erhart To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:52:17 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19980404.83FD9A0.99C7@spode.mindspring.net> Subject: SysBase MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Hi !!! I started to port my program to PPC (using SAS C PPC Beta 21) and thought= it would be wise to make it compileable with scppc first, before I start optimizing (adapt) it. The program "as it is" isn=B4t compileable, because scppc says: undefined= identifier "SysBase" (sc compiles without warnings or errors) in some fil= es but not in all. I tracked the problem down to this: when a file has the l= ine #include in it then SysBase is NOT defined. When I use #include instead, then CreatePort(), DeletePort(), etc. aren=B4t defined, but Sys= Base is. What goes on ? Is there a documentaion on all this that I have missed ? When I add both lines, then everything compiles as it should (I think) - = is that what I have to do ? thanx G=FCnter -- = /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / / www: http://www.onlineloop.com / / e-mail: erhart@onlineloop.com (or e9127021@stud1.tuwien.ac.at) / / p-mail: G=FCnter Erhart, M=E4rzstr. 52/5, A-1150 Vienna, Austria / / Phone: ++43 1 9825314 / / / /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Fri Apr 17 14:43:24 1998 Received: from server.fiber.net.pl (server.fiber.net.pl [195.117.208.101]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01208 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:40:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com ([207.69.200.82]) by server.fiber.net.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA4083 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:38:40 +0200 Received: from Home (user-38ld80r.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.160.27]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11945 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804171230.IAA11945@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> From: "Steve Krueger" To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SysBase Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:27:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list > I started to port my program to PPC (using SAS C PPC Beta 21) and thoug= ht it > would be wise to make it compileable with scppc first, before I start > optimizing (adapt) it. > The program "as it is" isn=B4t compileable, because scppc says: undefin= ed > identifier "SysBase" (sc compiles without warnings or errors) in some files > but not in all. I tracked the problem down to this: when a file has the line > #include > in it then SysBase is NOT defined. When I use > #include > instead, then CreatePort(), DeletePort(), etc. aren=B4t defined, but SysBase > is. >=20 > What goes on ? >=20 > Is there a documentaion on all this that I have missed ? > >When I add both lines, then everything compiles as it should (I think) - is >that what I have to do ? I forgot to patch proto/exec.h in the PPC patch. You can add the lines below to proto/exec.h, or you can define USE_SYSBASE on the command line. #ifdef __PPC__ #ifndef __USE_SYSBASE #define __USE_SYSBASE 1 #endif #endif From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Fri Apr 17 14:43:40 1998 Received: from dns1.supermedia.pl (dns1.supermedia.pl [195.116.124.17]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01199 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:37:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from szymon.supermedia.pl (szymon.supermedia.pl [195.116.168.93]) by dns1.supermedia.pl (NTMail 3.03.0014/4c.aamn) with ESMTP id ka516942 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:59:44 +0200 Received: from union.org.pl [195.116.250.144] by union.art.pl [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.7.SP2.R) for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:03:59 +0200 From: Peter Drapich To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:50:26 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: SysBase MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On 17-Apr-98, Guenter Erhart wrote: >Hi !!! >I started to port my program to PPC (using SAS C PPC Beta 21) and though= t it >would be wise to make it compileable with scppc first, before I start >optimizing (adapt) it. >The program "as it is" isn=B4t compileable, because scppc says: undefine= d >identifier "SysBase" (sc compiles without warnings or errors) in some fi= les >but not in all. I tracked the problem down to this: when a file has the = line >#include >in it then SysBase is NOT defined. When I use >#include >instead, then CreatePort(), DeletePort(), etc. aren=B4t defined, but Sy= sBase >is. CreatePort and DeletePort are parts of amiga.lib, which currently is not available for powerpc processor. Use CreateMsgPort and DeleteMsgPort instead. >What goes on ? >Is there a documentaion on all this that I have missed ? >When I add both lines, then everything compiles as it should (I think) -= is >that what I have to do ? No, it won't work - you'll get errors during linking. Include ppcproto/ex= ec.h and change = these functions I mentioned and then it will work. regards, Peter From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sat Apr 18 00:23:22 1998 Received: from mail.onlineloop.com (root@maerz.vbs.at [194.152.167.73]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA03042 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:14:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from onlineloop.com (artline.onlineloop.com [194.152.178.66]) by mail.onlineloop.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA15100 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 01:14:57 +0200 From: Guenter Erhart To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:06:45 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199804171230.IAA11945@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Subject: Re[2]: SysBase MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list >> I started to port my program to PPC (using SAS C PPC Beta 21) and thou= ght >> it would be wise to make it compileable with scppc first, before I sta= rt >> optimizing (adapt) it. >> = >> The program "as it is" isn=B4t compileable, because scppc says: undefi= ned >> identifier "SysBase" (sc compiles without warnings or errors) in some >> files but not in all. I tracked the problem down to this: when a file= has the >> line >> #include >> in it then SysBase is NOT defined. When I use >> #include >> instead, then CreatePort(), DeletePort(), etc. aren=B4t defined, but >> SysBase >> is. > = > I forgot to patch proto/exec.h in the PPC patch. You can add the lines > below to > proto/exec.h, or you can define USE_SYSBASE on the command line. > = > = > #ifdef __PPC__ > #ifndef __USE_SYSBASE > #define __USE_SYSBASE 1 > #endif > #endif Ok, I added these lines and most of my files compile now, but not all :) if I include iffp/8svx.h (which includes iffp/iff.h) then I get the following error: INCLUDE:iffp/iff.h 58 Error 72: conflict with previous declaration See line 17 file "INCLUDE:proto/exec.h" The corresponding lines in iffp/iff.h: #ifndef NO_SAS_PRAGMAS extern struct Library *SysBase; sc still compiles as it should .... An other question: is there a simplier method to make a PPC and 680x0 .o version of one .c f= ile then having the same .c twice or making a link for every single file ? Something like an option to compile hallo.c to halloPPC.o ? thanx G=FCnter -- = /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / / www: http://www.onlineloop.com / / e-mail: erhart@onlineloop.com (or e9127021@stud1.tuwien.ac.at) / / p-mail: G=FCnter Erhart, M=E4rzstr. 52/5, A-1150 Vienna, Austria / / Phone: ++43 1 9825314 / / / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////= From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sat Apr 18 01:23:31 1998 Received: from shell.wco.com (root@shell.wco.com [199.4.94.16]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA03229 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 01:21:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from volans102.wco.com (fw@volans102.wco.com [207.48.88.102]) by shell.wco.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/WCO-18jul97) with SMTP id QAA19584 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:17:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Wright To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SysBase In-Reply-To: <199804171230.IAA11945@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Steve Krueger wrote: > I forgot to patch proto/exec.h in the PPC patch. You can add the lines > below to > proto/exec.h, or you can define USE_SYSBASE on the command line. Under what circumstances is it meaningful to access SysBase from PPC code? Fred Wright From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sat Apr 18 02:03:39 1998 Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA03324 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 01:54:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Home (user-38ld853.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.160.163]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19382 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804172351.TAA19382@camel8.mindspring.com> From: "Steve Krueger" To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: Re[2]: SysBase Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:47:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list > > An other question: > > is there a simplier method to make a PPC and 680x0 .o version of one .c file > then having the same .c twice or making a link for every single file ? > Something like an option to compile hallo.c to halloPPC.o ? Sure, use the OBJNAME option, like: sc test.c objname=test.o_68k scppc test.c objname=test.o_ppc sk From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sat Apr 18 02:43:15 1998 Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA05239 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 02:26:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Home (user-38ld86o.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.160.216]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13821 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804180023.UAA13821@camel14.mindspring.com> From: "Steve Krueger" To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: SysBase Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:19:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list When calling Exec routines through the PPCCallOS() routine. sk ---------- > From: Fred Wright > To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list > Subject: Re: SysBase > Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 7:17 PM > > > On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Steve Krueger wrote: > > > I forgot to patch proto/exec.h in the PPC patch. You can add the lines > > below to > > proto/exec.h, or you can define USE_SYSBASE on the command line. > > Under what circumstances is it meaningful to access SysBase from PPC code? > > Fred Wright > > > -- WFMH AmigaPPC-Dev ------------------------------------------------------- > http://amiga.com.pl/lists/ From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sat Apr 18 03:03:15 1998 Received: from mail.onlineloop.com (root@maerz.vbs.at [194.152.167.73]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA05272 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 02:56:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from onlineloop.com (artline.onlineloop.com [194.152.178.66]) by mail.onlineloop.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA15731 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 03:57:22 +0200 From: Guenter Erhart To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 02:53:26 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199804172351.TAA19382@camel8.mindspring.com> Subject: Re[4]: SysBase MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list >> is there a simplier method to make a PPC and 680x0 .o version of one .= c > file >> then having the same .c twice or making a link for every single file ?= >> Something like an option to compile hallo.c to halloPPC.o ? > = > = > Sure, use the OBJNAME option, like: > = > sc test.c objname=3Dtest.o_68k > scppc test.c objname=3Dtest.o_ppc thanx Steve, now after I read this I could find it in the user guide, bef= ore I didn=B4t see it, sorry :( Fred Wright wrote: >Under what circumstances is it meaningful to access SysBase from PPC cod= e? As far as I understand it, you need SysBase whenever you call an exec function - a6, one of the members of the structure that is used as argument to PPCCallOS() has to be initialized with SysBase when calling an exec function. G=FCnter -- = /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / / www: http://www.onlineloop.com / / e-mail: erhart@onlineloop.com (or e9127021@stud1.tuwien.ac.at) / / p-mail: G=FCnter Erhart, M=E4rzstr. 52/5, A-1150 Vienna, Austria / / Phone: ++43 1 9825314 / / / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////= From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Mon Apr 20 16:01:33 1998 Received: from mail.onlineloop.com (root@maerz.vbs.at [194.152.167.73]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01816 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:56:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from onlineloop.com (artline.onlineloop.com [194.152.178.66]) by mail.onlineloop.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA02198 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:50:10 +0200 From: Guenter Erhart To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:50:19 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199804180023.UAA13821@camel14.mindspring.com> Subject: PPCCallM68k() with SAS C and Hunk format MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Hi Im sorry to bother you again, but I stumble on very basic problems converting my program to powerup using SAS C (Hunk format, mixed binary) = and don=B4t know what else I could try. I try to call a m68k function with PPCCallM68k(). This works with the sho= rt sample of Phase5 (OSSupport.c) where the M68K function is given as HexCod= e, but does not seem to work with code produced with sc. Most of the time I = get illegal instruction software failures, so it seems PPCCallM68k() jumps wh= ere it shouldn=B4t. My Code looks like this: sc: void foo(void) { = } scppc: struct Caos *MyCaos; if((MyCaos =3D (struct Caos*)PPCAllocVec(sizeof(struct Caos),MEMF_PUB= LIC | MEMF_CLEAR)) !=3D NULL) { MyCaos->caos_Un.Function=3D _foo; MyCaos->M68kCacheMode=3D IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; MyCaos->PPCCacheMode=3D IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; PPCCallM68k(MyCaos); PPCFreeVec(MyCaos); } I tried to compile the M68K code with different parameters (eg.: parms=3D= registers, but scppc doesn=B4t accept a name like @foo) but with no succe= ss. A second problem: I link my code with something like: slinkppc PPC FROM LIB:c.o+mainPPC.o+GraphicDriver680x0Stubs.o TO Programm= PPC \ LIBRARY IntuitionDriver.lib+lib:scppc.lib IntuitionDriver.lib is M68K code ... I always get an undefined symbol: __writes File 'IntuitionDriver.lib', Module 'IntuitionDriver.c' That doesn=B4t occure if I link sc.lib in addition, but then the programm= doesnt work anymore. thanx for your help G=FCnter -- = /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / / www: http://www.onlineloop.com / / e-mail: erhart@onlineloop.com (or e9127021@stud1.tuwien.ac.at) / / p-mail: G=FCnter Erhart, M=E4rzstr. 52/5, A-1150 Vienna, Austria / / Phone: ++43 1 9825314 / / / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////= From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Mon Apr 20 23:21:16 1998 Received: from mail.cww.de (mail.cww.de [193.189.224.209]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03312 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:01:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dsdf-m100-99.pool.cww.de (markus.adamski@dsdf-m100-99.pool.cww.de [195.71.100.99]) by mail.cww.de (8.8.7/8.8.7/powered by Telemedia) with SMTP id WAA15351 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:57:14 +0200 (MET DST) Date: 20 Apr 98 22:55:28 +0100 From: "Markus Adamski" Subject: Re: PPCCallM68k() with SAS C and Hunk format To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <734.414T1408T13754724@cityweb.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On 20-Apr-98 15:50:19 Guenter Erhart wrote about "PPCCallM68k() with SAS C and Hunk format": [...] >scppc: > struct Caos *MyCaos; > if((MyCaos = (struct Caos*)PPCAllocVec(sizeof(struct Caos),MEMF_PUBLIC | >MEMF_CLEAR)) != NULL) > { > MyCaos->caos_Un.Function= _foo; > MyCaos->M68kCacheMode= IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; > MyCaos->PPCCacheMode= IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; Here, only IF_CACHEFLUSHALL works reliable. With above flags and a call to graphics.library I did get a nice flashing red screen. --Markus A4000T/060@50/604@150/OS3.1/2+96MB RAM/3.2GB HD/CV64-3D Using THOR 2.5a -- For years I believed Pathos was one of the Three Musketeers, Fellatio was a character in Hamlet,... From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Mon Apr 20 23:21:29 1998 Received: from dewdrop2.mindspring.com (dewdrop2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03385 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:12:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Home (user-38ld8d8.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.161.168]) by dewdrop2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15185 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804202109.RAA15185@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> From: "Steve Krueger" To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: PPCCallM68k() with SAS C and Hunk format Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:05:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list > Im sorry to bother you again, but I stumble on very basic problems > converting my program to powerup using SAS C (Hunk format, mixed binary) and > don´t know > what else I could try. > > I try to call a m68k function with PPCCallM68k(). This works with the short > sample of Phase5 (OSSupport.c) where the M68K function is given as HexCode, > but does not seem to work with code produced with sc. Most of the time I get > illegal instruction software failures, so it seems PPCCallM68k() jumps where > it shouldn´t. > > My Code looks like this: > sc: > > void foo(void) > { > > } > > scppc: > > struct Caos *MyCaos; > > if((MyCaos = (struct Caos*)PPCAllocVec(sizeof(struct Caos),MEMF_PUBLIC | > MEMF_CLEAR)) != NULL) > { > MyCaos->caos_Un.Function= _foo; > MyCaos->M68kCacheMode= IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; > MyCaos->PPCCacheMode= IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; > > PPCCallM68k(MyCaos); > > PPCFreeVec(MyCaos); > } There's no way you could have known this, (because I didn't document it), but the HUNKOBJ option makes the compiler use function descriptors, like the PowerOpen ABI. Therefore, you must derefence the address of a function pointer twice to get the real addres of the function. Somehting like this should work. MyCaos->caos_Un.Function= *(long*) _foo; > I tried to compile the M68K code with different parameters (eg.: parms= > registers, but scppc doesn´t accept a name like @foo) but with no success. Don't use PARM=REG. > A second problem: > > I link my code with something like: > > slinkppc PPC FROM LIB:c.o+mainPPC.o+GraphicDriver680x0Stubs.o TO ProgrammPPC > \ > LIBRARY IntuitionDriver.lib+lib:scppc.lib > IntuitionDriver.lib is M68K code ... > > I always get an undefined symbol: > > __writes File 'IntuitionDriver.lib', Module > 'IntuitionDriver.c' > > That doesn´t occure if I link sc.lib in addition, but then the programm > doesnt work anymore. __writes() is a shortened version of printf() on the 68k side. It only lives in sc.lib. SLINKPPC only creates autoinitializers for the PPC side, so the 68k side can't do printf()'s anyway - unless you set up the 68k stdio yourself (a tricky thing to do). Remove the printf()'s from IntuitionDriver, and you should be ok. sk From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Tue Apr 21 03:01:07 1998 Received: from mail.onlineloop.com (root@maerz.vbs.at [194.152.167.73]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA05855 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:56:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from onlineloop.com (artline.onlineloop.com [194.152.178.66]) by mail.onlineloop.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA04470 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:51:10 +0200 From: Guenter Erhart To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:52:45 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199804202109.RAA15185@dewdrop2.mindspring.com> Subject: Re[2]: PPCCallM68k() with SAS C and Hunk format MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list HI >> I try to call a m68k function with PPCCallM68k(). = >>... >> My Code looks like this: >> sc: >> = >> void foo(void) >> { >> = >> } >> = >> scppc: >> = >> struct Caos *MyCaos; >> = >> if((MyCaos =3D (struct Caos*)PPCAllocVec(sizeof(struct > Caos),MEMF_PUBLIC | >> MEMF_CLEAR)) !=3D NULL) >> { >> MyCaos->caos_Un.Function=3D _foo; >> MyCaos->M68kCacheMode=3D IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; >> MyCaos->PPCCacheMode=3D IF_CACHEFLUSHNO; >> = >> PPCCallM68k(MyCaos); >> = >> PPCFreeVec(MyCaos); >> } > = > = > There's no way you could have known this, (because I didn't document it= ), > but the HUNKOBJ option makes the compiler use function descriptors, lik= e > the PowerOpen ABI. Therefore, you must derefence the address of a funct= ion > pointer twice to get the real addres of the function. Somehting like th= is > should work. > = > MyCaos->caos_Un.Function=3D *(long*) _foo; > = Great, now it works (after remembering __saveds, __asm and __register... = ;-) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A hint for all who read the above and think: what difference does it make to cast to long (like I did first) ? Turn your mail readers option to show textstyles off - now it looks different :-) thanx G=FCnter -- = /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / / www: http://www.onlineloop.com / / e-mail: erhart@onlineloop.com (or e9127021@stud1.tuwien.ac.at) / / p-mail: G=FCnter Erhart, M=E4rzstr. 52/5, A-1150 Vienna, Austria / / Phone: ++43 1 9825314 / / / /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Wed Apr 22 10:14:45 1998 Received: from namib.north.de (root@namib.North.DE [192.109.226.18]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05952 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:04:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from spooler.ohz.north.de (spooler.ohz.north.de [194.94.254.66]) by namib.north.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA13870 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:02:15 +0200 Received: from with bsmtp by spooler.ohz.north.de with bsmtp (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 #3) id m0yRuRT-000xgPC; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:59:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from uistda.ohz.north.de with uucp by machnix.ohz.north.de with uucp (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 #1) id m0yS10Q-0004saC; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by uistda.ohz.north.de (UUCPfZ V5.81 U044) via ZConnect; 22 Apr 98 07:45:21 +0100 Date: 21 Apr 98 11:03:02 +0200 From: HoneyBee@Topscope.ohz.north.de (Us) Subject: PPC Dev List To: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl, amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1PHzmMD1997aUz1@honeybee.topscope.ohz.north.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Hi 2 all u PPCer! I`m with this list for quite some time now and it is really nice to watch the traffic there is. But could you PLEASE make a note to each mail postet out so that one can identify it as a mail from this list!? Put an aditional tag in the subject like <[PPCDL]> (=PPC Developers List)! Then we all could easily sort `em in appropriate dirs and the chaos I have wouldn`t last forever. (Since it`s even harder because there`s no uniform sender) Thanks in advance! -- . ` -- ____ _ __ ________ _ . ·-- __ __/ __/__ _/|___ _/ |/\/(_)_ __/ / -- HonEYBee@tOPscOpE.oHz.noRTh.dE ·-- / // /\ \(_-<> _< _ `//|//\/ / / / / /__ -_ _ \_/ . ·-- \_,_/___/___/|/ \_, /____ /_/ /_/ /____/ _ / \ ^ · .-- ¤Hĝ×EYbeE¤ /___//___/ ]AmigA[ pRivaTe: 101.61978@-aSK_fRienDs!- From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Wed Apr 22 15:55:01 1998 Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (root@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA06943; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:42:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from daneel.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.59] EHLO daneel.nvg.ntnu.no ident: kolla [port 6661]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <49285-645>; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:38:21 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:28:38 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kolbj=F8rn_Barmen?= To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" cc: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Subject: Re: PPC Dev List In-Reply-To: <1PHzmMD1997aUz1@honeybee.topscope.ohz.north.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On 21 Apr 1998, Us wrote: > that one can identify it as a mail from this list!? Put an aditional tag in > the subject like <[PPCDL]> (=PPC Developers List)! Then we all could easily > sort `em in appropriate dirs and the chaos I have wouldn`t last forever. > (Since it`s even harder because there`s no uniform sender) Hm.. second amiga list this day... Why dont you sort your incoming mail from their recipient headers? Below is an example from my .procmailrc, any decent mail program *should* be capable of sorting mail in a similar fasion. :0 * (^To|^Cc|^Reply-To).*amigappc.*@.* /var/spool/mail/.kolla/PPC (For those not familiar with regexp/procmail, this will sort all mails to, cc'ed or with reply-to pattern to any mail address including amigappc and put it in the /var/spool/mail/.kolla/PPC mail folder.) Kolbjĝrn Barmen | a3k/o6o/6o4e/AmigaOS/MacOS/Linux-PPC | // T e a m | a12ooCT/o3o/Linux-m68k a6oo/o3o/AmigaOS | \XX/ A M I G A Nettverksgruppa | "I met the Amiga and fell in love..." | ğğ Norwegian University of Technology and Science ĞĞ From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Wed Apr 22 18:54:49 1998 Received: from server.fiber.net.pl (server.fiber.net.pl [195.117.208.101]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07446 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:45:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nevald.k-net.dk (nevald.k-net.dtu.dk [130.225.71.226]) by server.fiber.net.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA12D5 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:43:19 +0200 Received: (qmail 14782 invoked from network); 22 Apr 1998 16:41:32 -0000 Received: from carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk (qmailr@192.38.212.2) by nevald.k-net.dtu.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 1998 16:41:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 1460 invoked from network); 22 Apr 1998 16:41:30 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 1998 16:41:30 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 22 Apr 1998 16:41:16 -0000 Date: 22 Apr 98 18:40:55 +0200 From: "Rask Ingemann Lambertsen" Subject: Re: PPC Dev List To: "Amiga PowerPC developer mailing list" In-Reply-To: <1PHzmMD1997aUz1@honeybee.topscope.ohz.north.de> Message-ID: <1278.416T2761T11206201@kampsax.k-net.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Den 21-Apr-98 11:03:02 skrev Us fĝlgende om "PPC Dev List": > Hi 2 all u PPCer! > I`m with this list for quite some time now and it is really nice to watch > the traffic there is. > But could you PLEASE make a note to each mail postet > out so that one can identify it as a mail from this list!? Put an aditional > tag in the subject like <[PPCDL]> (=PPC Developers List)! Please don't. Not only does it look ugly, but it also wastes screen space so you can see less of the useful part of the subject: line. > Then we all could > easily sort `em in appropriate dirs and the chaos I have wouldn`t last > forever. > (Since it`s even harder because there`s no uniform sender) Searching for Return-Path: amigadev-ppc-owner@amiga.com.pl works fine here. Regards, /ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻTŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\ | Rask Ingemann Lambertsen | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk | | Registered Phase5 developer | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ | | A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64) | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC | | If you had an off switch, Doctor, would you not keep it secret? | From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Wed Apr 22 22:35:07 1998 Received: from serv1.is1.u-net.net (serv1.is1.u-net.net [194.119.130.9]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA08278 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:32:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from amiga.u-net.com [194.119.174.100] by serv1.is1.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0yS6DQ-0003f8-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:34:01 +0100 From: Keith Blakemore-Noble To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:28:41 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1PHzmMD1997aUz1@honeybee.topscope.ohz.north.de> Subject: Re: PPC Dev List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Hello Us On 21-Apr-98, you wrote: > Hi 2 all u PPCer! > I`m with this list for quite some time now and it is really nice to watch the > traffic there is. But could you PLEASE make a note to each mail postet out so > that one can identify it as a mail from this list!? Put an aditional tag in > the subject like <[PPCDL]> (=PPC Developers List)! No no n, please, no!! There is a much better way for you to identify and sort your mail (the way in which, I suspect, all the rest of us here use). Just filter on one of the headers. You can use either Return-path: Reply-to: To: (in order of preference - use the first if you can) Check one of those to see if it contains the string amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl which will identify it as coming from this mailing list. Thus, you can sort neatly, and not have to waste valuable space in the subject field :) For example, I set a filter with Yam to move all messages which contain the above string in the "To:" field - they end up in their own mailbox, ready for when I wish to read them. HTH, Keith From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Thu Apr 23 01:35:00 1998 Received: from topaz.auran.com ([203.29.190.2]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA08971 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:15:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from CWARD by topaz.auran.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id JLKFD6YT; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:11:44 +1000 Message-ID: <353E790F.37E0CE3@auran.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:11:11 +1000 From: Colin Ward MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: PPC Dev List References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Keith Blakemore-Noble wrote: > > > traffic there is. But could you PLEASE make a note to each mail postet out > so > > that one can identify it as a mail from this list!? Put an aditional tag > in > > the subject like <[PPCDL]> (=PPC Developers List)! > > No no n, please, no!! Why not? I too get annoyed that all of the lists that I'm on have an identifier in their subject line, *except* the PPC mailing list... I think it's a nice touch. > There is a much better way for you to identify and sort your mail (the way > in which, I suspect, all the rest of us here use). > > Just filter on one of the headers. > > You can use either > > Return-path: > Reply-to: > To: What's the Return-path: header? I've never seen it in any of my messages... I usually just sort by the To: field for mailing lists... Just wondering! /--------------------------------------------------------------\ [Hitman/Code HQ - 6502/68000/604e coder - Long live the Amiga! ] [VZ-200/Vic-20/c64*6/+4/c128/c128D*2/Amiga CD32/500/2000/1200*2] [3000UX/A4000/CV64-3D/060-50/604e-200/66 Meg. 6581 rulez! ] [After three days without coding, life becomes meaningless. ] \--------------------------------------------------------------/ From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Thu Apr 23 17:14:50 1998 Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (root@sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA13124 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:09:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from daneel.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.59] EHLO daneel.nvg.ntnu.no ident: kolla [port 12293]) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no with ESMTP id <49237-2357>; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:04:53 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:54:48 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kolbj=F8rn_Barmen?= To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: PPC Dev List In-Reply-To: <353E790F.37E0CE3@auran.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Colin Ward wrote: > > No no n, please, no!! > > Why not? I too get annoyed that all of the lists that I'm on have an > identifier in their subject line, *except* the PPC mailing list... I > think it's a nice touch. It's a silly workaround of a non-existing problem. > > Return-path: > > Reply-to: > > To: > > What's the Return-path: header? I've never seen it in any of my > messages... I usually just sort by the To: field for mailing lists... Hit the "show all headers" button/menu/whatever thingy in your client and you will see there are alot more headers. RTFM! :) Kolbjĝrn Barmen | a3k/o6o/6o4e/AmigaOS/MacOS/Linux-PPC | // T e a m | a12ooCT/o3o/Linux-m68k a6oo/o3o/AmigaOS | \XX/ A M I G A Nettverksgruppa | "I met the Amiga and fell in love..." | ğğ Norwegian University of Technology and Science ĞĞ From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Thu Apr 23 23:34:47 1998 Received: from serv1.is1.u-net.net (serv1.is1.u-net.net [194.119.130.9]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA14492 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:21:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from amiga.u-net.com [194.119.174.100] by serv1.is1.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0ySTRc-0001jw-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:22:12 +0100 From: Keith Blakemore-Noble To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:16:49 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <353E790F.37E0CE3@auran.com> Subject: Re[2]: PPC Dev List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Hello Colin On 23-Apr-98, you wrote: >>> that one can identify it as a mail from this list!? Put an aditional tag >> in >>> the subject like <[PPCDL]> (=PPC Developers List)! >> >> No no n, please, no!! > > Why not? Because it is an annoying kludge which serves no purpose (hmm, I coudl almost be describing WarpOS here! ;-) ) - the original poster was describing a solution to a problem which, frankly, does not actually exist. I.e. a much better, safer and less cluttered way to seperate out is simply to filter, much as you yourself already do. >> Just filter on one of the headers. >> >> Return-path: >> Reply-to: >> To: > > What's the Return-path: header? I've never seen it in any of my > messages... Try listing all headers on a message and you'll see it > I usually just sort by the To: field for mailing lists... Yup, that'd do just as well :) TTFN, Keith From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Fri Apr 24 01:34:57 1998 Received: from topaz.auran.com ([203.29.190.2]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA14810 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 01:21:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from CWARD by topaz.auran.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id J35W39FN; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:17:37 +1000 Message-ID: <353FCBE9.EF82C16C@auran.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:16:57 +1000 From: Colin Ward MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: PPC Dev List References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Kolbjĝrn Barmen wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Colin Ward wrote: > > What's the Return-path: header? I've never seen it in any of my > > messages... I usually just sort by the To: field for mailing lists... > > Hit the "show all headers" button/menu/whatever thingy in your client > and you will see there are alot more headers. RTFM! :) I *did* RTFM! I even wrote my own mailer! But I've never seen that header before, hence my confusion! /--------------------------------------------------------------\ [Hitman/Code HQ - 6502/68000/604e coder - Long live the Amiga! ] [VZ-200/Vic-20/c64*6/+4/c128/c128D*2/Amiga CD32/500/2000/1200*2] [3000UX/A4000/CV64-3D/060-50/604e-200/66 Meg. 6581 rulez! ] [After three days without coding, life becomes meaningless. ] \--------------------------------------------------------------/ From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Fri Apr 24 18:59:41 1998 Received: from giglio.iol.it (giglio.iol.it [195.210.91.87]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01756 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:40:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iol-mail ([195.210.77.48]) by giglio.iol.it (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA26749 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:35:43 +0200 Received: by iol-mail.iol.it (Amiga SMTPpost 1.04 December 9, 1994) id AA01; Fri, 24 Apr 98 18:30:57 From: ggreco@iol.it (Gabriele Greco) Message-ID: Subject: HUNK vs ELF Date: 22 Apr 98 18:35:06 CET To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list I've just remaked my infozip PPC port with the HUNKOBJ format, I'm wondering why it's so small compared with the elf binary... hunkzip 116740 ----rwed Oggi 18:33:09 ppczip 194497 ----rwed 22-Mar-98 01:25:22 Anyway I'll release it on Aminet quite soon :) Ciao, Gabry (ggreco@iol.it) From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Fri Apr 24 19:59:44 1998 Received: from lamb.sas.com (root@lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02056 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:53:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mozart (mozart.unx.sas.com [192.58.184.8]) by lamb.sas.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20369 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from linen (inetgw01.unx.sas.com) by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA15538; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:49:06 -0400 Message-Id: <3540D093.55E@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:49:08 -0400 From: Steve Krueger Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Gabriele Greco wrote: > > I've just remaked my infozip PPC port with the HUNKOBJ format, I'm wondering > why it's so small compared with the elf binary... > > hunkzip 116740 ----rwed Oggi 18:33:09 > ppczip 194497 ----rwed 22-Mar-98 01:25:22 > > Anyway I'll release it on Aminet quite soon :) > Much of the extra space in the ELF format is in the strings sections. Try using the objdump tool, and you can see them. What we need is a stripping utility that will get rid of all the junk that is not needed in the elf exe, but leaves the strings that reference the ppc.library kernel calls. sk From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sat Apr 25 22:59:48 1998 Received: from mailout01.btx.dtag.de (mailout01.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.149]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05570 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:41:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fwd08.btx.dtag.de (fwd08.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.168]) by mailout01.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0yTBfw-0006XY-00; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:35:56 +0200 Received: from funnel24.btx.dtag.de (0241520508-0001(btxid)@[194.25.2.25]) by fwd08.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:35:52 +0200 Message-ID: <3542473D.3529C4F3@T-Online.de> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:27:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Beginner Problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Spoeth@t-online.de (Philipp Spöth) Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list I just wanted to code something to test my ppcs speed. Just some demoeffect to be displayed on a cybergfx screen. Using OScalls works fine, but when I use WritePixelArray() or GetCyberMapAttr(Screen->Bitmap,CYBRMTTR_DISPADR) to somehow display the gfx an "ELF Object Resolve Error" occurs saying " Reloc Type R_PPC_REL24 not found". Ok, first off I guess I should have tried something like call68k (I will). Anyway, I have no expirience in ppc coding, so I´d be very pleased, if someone could send me some example sources. BTW are there cybergraphics ppc pragmas anywhere? As I was late on ordering the sas package I´m using the vbcc. Philipp From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 01:40:02 1998 Received: from server.fiber.net.pl (server.fiber.net.pl [195.117.208.101]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06006 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:36:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nevald.k-net.dk (nevald.k-net.dtu.dk [130.225.71.226]) by server.fiber.net.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA5920 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:33:28 +0200 Received: (qmail 15328 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1998 23:31:45 -0000 Received: from carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk (qmailr@192.38.212.2) by nevald.k-net.dtu.dk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1998 23:31:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 18765 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1998 23:31:45 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1998 23:31:45 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1998 23:31:13 -0000 Date: 26 Apr 98 01:17:58 +0200 From: "Rask Ingemann Lambertsen" Subject: Re: PPC Dev List To: "Miami mailing list" In-Reply-To: <353E790F.37E0CE3@auran.com> Message-ID: <1427.420T2915T775927@kampsax.k-net.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Cc: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Den 23-Apr-98 01:11:11 skrev Colin Ward fĝlgende om "Re: PPC Dev List": > Why not? I too get annoyed that all of the lists that I'm on have an > identifier in their subject line, *except* the PPC mailing list... I > think it's a nice touch. No. Such a subject line identifier would fill a much needed gap. > What's the Return-path: header? I've never seen it in any of my > messages... Return-Path: is inserted by your local delivery agent. It contains the envelope sender address (the address where bounces are sent to by RFC compliant mail systems). > I usually just sort by the To: field for mailing lists... The To: header field is for (mis)informational purposes only, not for mail routing (although most mail readers take the initial envelope recipient address from the To: field specified by the user). Thus, it is generally unreliable for mail sorting. Regards, /ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻTŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\ | Rask Ingemann Lambertsen | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk | | Registered Phase5 developer | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ | | A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64) | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC | | Life starts at '030, fun starts at '040, impotence starts at '86. | From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 01:40:02 1998 Received: from nevald.k-net.dk (nevald.k-net.dtu.dk [130.225.71.226]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06004 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:36:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 15325 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1998 23:31:38 -0000 Received: from carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk (qmailr@192.38.212.2) by nevald.k-net.dtu.dk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1998 23:31:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 18760 invoked from network); 25 Apr 1998 23:31:37 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1998 23:31:37 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 25 Apr 1998 23:31:10 -0000 Date: 26 Apr 98 01:02:53 +0200 From: "Rask Ingemann Lambertsen" Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF To: "Amiga PowerPC developer mailing list" In-Reply-To: <3540D093.55E@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <1255.420T2695T626043@kampsax.k-net.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Den 24-Apr-98 19:49:08 skrev Steve Krueger fĝlgende om "Re: HUNK vs ELF": > Gabriele Greco wrote: >> hunkzip 116740 ----rwed Oggi 18:33:09 >> ppczip 194497 ----rwed 22-Mar-98 01:25:22 > Much of the extra space in the ELF format is in the strings sections. > Try using the objdump tool, and you can see them. What we need is > a stripping utility that will get rid of all the junk that is not > needed in the elf exe, but leaves the strings that reference the > ppc.library kernel calls. When using GCC, compiling with the -s option does a nice job of stripping only the unneeded symbols. With a bit of luck, SAS/C users can simply pass -s to the linker directly. Otherwise, RTFM. ;-) Regards, /ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻTŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\ | Rask Ingemann Lambertsen | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk | | Registered Phase5 developer | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ | | A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64) | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC | | Es funktioniert nicht, sieht aber gut aus. | From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 11:59:46 1998 Received: from fen.baynet.de (root@hugo.fen.baynet.de [194.95.193.10]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06899 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:41:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fen.baynet.de (popman@dialin-er-24.fen.baynet.de [194.95.193.88]) by fen.baynet.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28435 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Felix Schwarz To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:01:32 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3542473D.3529C4F3@T-Online.de> Subject: Re: Beginner Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On 25-Apr-98, Philipp Sp=F6th wrote: Hi Philipp! > Using OScalls works fine, > but when I use WritePixelArray() or > GetCyberMapAttr(Screen->Bitmap,CYBRMTTR_DISPADR) > to somehow display the gfx an "ELF Object Resolve Error" occurs saying > " > Reloc Type R_PPC_REL24 not found". You don`t need call68k or something like that and the error appearing onl= y tells you, that the linker couldn`t find the functions. You can use fd2in= line for your job creating the needed pragma-files from the clib and fd-file of th= e library. (I currently use SAS/C but this method should also work fine for vbcc). -- = Ciao, Felix | // A4000/060/50Mhz+604e/180Mhz/54MB/6.4GB/CV3D + A1200/030/6MB | From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 13:19:48 1998 Received: from giglio.iol.it (giglio.iol.it [195.210.91.87]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07076 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:17:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from iol-mail ([195.210.71.235]) by giglio.iol.it (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA17441 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:13:20 +0200 Received: by iol-mail.iol.it (Amiga SMTPpost 1.04 December 9, 1994) id AA01; Sun, 26 Apr 98 13:08:29 From: ggreco@iol.it (Gabriele Greco) Message-ID: Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF Date: 26 Apr 98 11:33:57 CET In-Reply-To: <1255.420T2695T626043@kampsax.k-net.dk> To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Ciao Rask, In un messaggio datato 26 Apr 98 scrivevi a All : RIL> When using GCC, compiling with the -s option does a nice job of RIL> stripping only the unneeded symbols. With a bit of luck, SAS/C users RIL> can simply pass -s to the linker directly. Otherwise, RTFM. ;-) I've already used the -s switch with ppc-amigaos-ld in the zip elf binary... It doesn't change anything. What fucking manual I have to read? :) Ciao, Gabry (ggreco@iol.it) From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 13:59:45 1998 Received: from vb.franken.de (vb.franken.de [193.174.2.34]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07185 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:50:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (volker@localhost) by vb.franken.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA00519 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:02:41 +0200 Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:02:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Volker Barthelmann To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: Beginner Problems In-Reply-To: <3542473D.3529C4F3@T-Online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Philipp Sp=F6th wrote: > Using OScalls works fine, > but when I use WritePixelArray() or > GetCyberMapAttr(Screen->Bitmap,CYBRMTTR_DISPADR) > to somehow display the gfx an "ELF Object Resolve Error" occurs saying > " > Reloc Type R_PPC_REL24 not found". When using other shared libraries you have to create a linker library containing stub-calls from the fd-files. This can be done with fd2libPPC. Have a look at vbccppc:doc/fd2libPPC.doc. Volker From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 16:20:06 1998 Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de (mailout02.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.150]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA07441 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fwd15.btx.dtag.de (fwd15.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.175]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0yTRvB-0003dp-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:56:45 +0200 Received: from funnel24.btx.dtag.de (0241520508-0001(btxid)@[194.25.2.25]) by fwd15.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:56:33 +0200 Message-ID: <3543374E.32E6034A@T-Online.de> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 15:31:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: Beginner Problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Spoeth@t-online.de (Philipp Spöth) Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Felix Schwarz wrote: > > On 25-Apr-98, Philipp Spöth wrote: > > Hi Philipp! > > > Using OScalls works fine, > > but when I use WritePixelArray() or > > GetCyberMapAttr(Screen->Bitmap,CYBRMTTR_DISPADR) > > to somehow display the gfx an "ELF Object Resolve Error" occurs saying > > " > > Reloc Type R_PPC_REL24 not found". > > You don`t need call68k or something like that and the error appearing only > tells you, that the linker couldn`t find the functions. You can use fd2inline for > your job creating the needed pragma-files from the clib and fd-file of the library. Yes. I had tried the fd2inline from the phase5 cd, but unfortunatly it crashed on my machine. Now I tried it with the one from the 45.5 archive and it works.... While the error does not occur anymore now the cybergraphics functions don´t work. WritePixelArray() e.g. does not return again, while the same for 68k works fine. Could someone please mail me an example ?!? BTW I get millions of Nr 54 Warnings(vbcc) from the ppcpragmas. I tried to surpress them with -dontwarn=54 in the commandline with an errormessage and in the options file with no effect at all. Any hints? > (I currently use SAS/C but this method should also work fine for vbcc). Is there any source left for getting sas now? > > -- > Ciao, > Felix Thanx for the reply. Philipp p.s. Does anybody know of ppc scenedemos or just effects ? From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 22:19:59 1998 Received: from namib.north.de (root@namib.North.DE [192.109.226.18]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA08320 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:04:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from spooler.ohz.north.de (spooler.ohz.north.de [194.94.254.66]) by namib.north.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA21961 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:02:52 +0200 Received: from with bsmtp by spooler.ohz.north.de with bsmtp (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #3 #3) id m0yTXcH-000xfhC; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:01:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from uistda.ohz.north.de with uucp by machnix.ohz.north.de with uucp (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 #1) id m0yTe9P-0004tCC; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by uistda.ohz.north.de (UUCPfZ V5.81 U044) via ZConnect; 26 Apr 98 19:32:23 +0100 Date: 25 Apr 98 22:46:44 +0200 From: HoneyBee@Topscope.ohz.north.de (Us) Subject: Re: PPC Dev List To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1QmfUMD1997aUz1@honeybee.topscope.ohz.north.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Thanks for all Your filtering tips concerning the PPC-subject-mails! I`ll go `n` try that! Cu -- . ` -- ____ _ __ ________ _ . ·-- __ __/ __/__ _/|___ _/ |/\/(_)_ __/ / -- HonEYBee@tOPscOpE.oHz.noRTh.dE ·-- / // /\ \(_-<> _< _ `//|//\/ / / / / /__ -_ _ \_/ . ·-- \_,_/___/___/|/ \_, /____ /_/ /_/ /____/ _ / \ ^ · .-- ¤Hĝ×EYbeE¤ /___//___/ ]AmigA[ pRivaTe: 101.61978@-aSK_fRienDs!- From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 22:40:17 1998 Received: from server.fiber.net.pl (server.fiber.net.pl [195.117.208.101]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA08485 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:36:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from server.fiber.net.pl (pppa154.szczecin.tpnet.pl [194.204.141.154]) by server.fiber.net.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAC670C for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:33:10 +0200 From: Marcin Orlowski To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:21:09 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Dnia 22-Kwi-98, Gabriele Greco napisa=B3: > hunkzip 116740 ----rwed Oggi 18:33:09 > ppczip 194497 ----rwed 22-Mar-98 01:25:22 It would be nice if we could have kind of standard names for ppc objects.= I'd like to see all ELFs as #?.elf while HUNK can stay as #? as there's no need of using extra tool like runelf to launch it. BTW: we tried Frogger in hunk format but it seems parsing tags (OpenWindowsTags()) is broken (as it was before in ELFs). Anyone experienced that? -- = My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Marcin http://wfmh.org.pl/~carlos/ mailto:carlos@wfmh.org.pl From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Sun Apr 26 22:40:32 1998 Received: from mailout02.btx.dtag.de (mailout02.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.150]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA08497 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:39:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fwd11.btx.dtag.de (fwd11.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.171]) by mailout02.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0yTY8B-0001De-00; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:34:35 +0200 Received: from funnel24.btx.dtag.de (0241520508-0001(btxid)@[194.25.2.25]) by fwd11.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:34:21 +0200 Message-ID: <354398C7.6C5DE151@T-Online.de> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:27:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: Beginner Problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Spoeth@t-online.de (Philipp Spöth) Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Volker Barthelmann wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Philipp Spöth wrote: > > > Using OScalls works fine, > > but when I use WritePixelArray() or > > GetCyberMapAttr(Screen->Bitmap,CYBRMTTR_DISPADR) > > to somehow display the gfx an "ELF Object Resolve Error" occurs saying > > " > > Reloc Type R_PPC_REL24 not found". > > When using other shared libraries you have to create a linker library > containing stub-calls from the fd-files. This can be done with fd2libPPC. > Have a look at vbccppc:doc/fd2libPPC.doc. I build a link library with fd2libppc copied it to the amigappc/lib dir and created the stubs with fd2inline. -> WritePixelArray() refuses to return. Writting directly to the display memory causes the same which is not too surprising, when you see that GetCyberMapAttr(&ScreenPtr->Bitmap,CYBRMTTR_WIDTH) causes wrong output, also. > > Volker > > -- WFMH AmigaPPC-Dev ------------------------------------------------------- > http://amiga.com.pl/lists/ From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Mon Apr 27 00:39:57 1998 Received: from mail.onlineloop.com (root@maerz.vbs.at [194.152.167.73]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08844 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from onlineloop.com (artline.onlineloop.com [194.152.178.66]) by mail.onlineloop.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA03853 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:25:46 +0200 From: Guenter Erhart To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:24:07 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Subject: PPCCallM68K() again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Hi, while I ported WolfPac to powerup some questions arised (in additon to th= e one I already asked on this list :). I would be very glad if you could he= lp me with one or the other. I tried to use the IF_ASYNC option of PPCCallM68K() because I thought it would be fine to have the ppc calculating the next frame while the M68k paints the last one using a WritePixelLine8() loop, but this made the program recognizeable slower than in synchronous mode. Does anyone understand this ? I=B4m wondering, when the caches are flushed by calling PPCCallM68K(). I assume the ppc=B4s cache is flushed before execution of the M68k function= and the M68k=B4s after the execution, but I=B4m not sure about that and it wo= uld probably help to optimize some things. = I tried to use Job Manager 1.0 to measure the load of the 68k part of my program, but that doesn=B4t seem to work (always near 0%). Can you give m= e an hint to an other program that works ? thanx G=FCnter -- = /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / / www: http://www.onlineloop.com / / e-mail: erhart@onlineloop.com (or e9127021@stud1.tuwien.ac.at) / / p-mail: G=FCnter Erhart, M=E4rzstr. 52/5, A-1150 Vienna, Austria / / Phone: ++43 1 9825314 / / / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////= From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Mon Apr 27 15:20:15 1998 Received: from server.fiber.net.pl (server.fiber.net.pl [195.117.208.101]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10967 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:59:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from vb.franken.de ([193.174.2.34]) by server.fiber.net.pl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with ESMTP id AAA2AE for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:55:21 +0200 Received: from localhost (volker@localhost) by vb.franken.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA01282 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:20:12 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:20:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Volker Barthelmann To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: Beginner Problems In-Reply-To: <3543374E.32E6034A@T-Online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Philipp Sp=F6th wrote: > Felix Schwarz wrote: > > You don`t need call68k or something like that and the error appearing o= nly > > tells you, that the linker couldn`t find the functions. You can use fd2= inline for > > your job creating the needed pragma-files from the clib and fd-file of = the library. >=20 > Yes. I had tried the fd2inline from the phase5 cd, but unfortunatly it > crashed on my machine. > Now I tried it with the one from the 45.5 archive and it works.... >=20 > While the error does not occur anymore now the cybergraphics functions > don=B4t work. > WritePixelArray() e.g. does not return again, while the same for 68k > works fine. You can't use the files created by fd2inline with vbcc. They are made to work with a certain compiler and use compiler-specific extensions. > BTW I get millions of Nr 54 Warnings(vbcc) from the ppcpragmas. I tried > to surpress them > with -dontwarn=3D54 in the commandline with an errormessage and in the > options file with > no effect at all. Any hints? As those files are compiler-specific vbcc doesn't understand them. If a warning can't be suppressed that means there is an ANSI-violation. Volker From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Tue Apr 28 02:20:02 1998 Received: from vb.franken.de (vb.franken.de [193.174.2.34]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA13696 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:15:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (volker@localhost) by vb.franken.de (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA01588 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:38:49 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:38:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Volker Barthelmann To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: Beginner Problems In-Reply-To: <354398C7.6C5DE151@T-Online.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Philipp Sp=F6th wrote: > I build a link library with fd2libppc copied it to the amigappc/lib dir > and created the stubs with fd2inline.=20 Do not use anything created by fd2inline and do not include any pragma-files. Just link with the library created with fd2libPPC. > -> WritePixelArray() refuses to return. Writting directly to the > display memory causes the same which is not too surprising, when you see > that GetCyberMapAttr(&ScreenPtr->Bitmap,CYBRMTTR_WIDTH) causes wrong > output, also. I'm not familiar with CyberGfx but I know there are programs using it which have been compiled with vbcc for PPC. Btw. did you compile with -amiga-align? Volker From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Tue Apr 28 02:20:03 1998 Received: from nevald.k-net.dk (nevald.k-net.dtu.dk [130.225.71.226]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA13684 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:09:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 23961 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1998 00:05:03 -0000 Received: from carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk (qmailr@192.38.212.2) by nevald.k-net.dtu.dk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1998 00:05:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 20022 invoked from network); 28 Apr 1998 00:05:02 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1998 00:05:02 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 28 Apr 1998 00:04:36 -0000 Date: 28 Apr 98 02:04:17 +0200 From: "Rask Ingemann Lambertsen" Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF To: "Amiga PowerPC developer mailing list" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <912.422T884T1243884@kampsax.k-net.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Den 26-Apr-98 23:21:09 skrev Marcin Orlowski fĝlgende om "Re: HUNK vs ELF": > It would be nice if we could have kind of standard names for ppc objects. > I'd like to see all ELFs as #?.elf while HUNK can stay as #? as there's > no need of using extra tool like runelf to launch it. What extra tool? It's been a while since there was any need for runelf and the like. Hint: LoadSegPatch. Regards, /ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻTŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\ | Rask Ingemann Lambertsen | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk | | Registered Phase5 developer | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ | | A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64) | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC | | I hate when a key gets stuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk... | From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Tue Apr 28 21:26:12 1998 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA16965 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:25:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:25:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Marcin Orlowski To: "AmigaPPC developers' mailing list" Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF In-Reply-To: <912.422T884T1243884@kampsax.k-net.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list On 28 Apr 1998, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote: > > It would be nice if we could have kind of standard names for ppc objects. > > I'd like to see all ELFs as #?.elf while HUNK can stay as #? as there's > > no need of using extra tool like runelf to launch it. > What extra tool? It's been a while since there was any need for runelf and > the like. Hint: LoadSegPatch. Well, indeed, however that makes no difference here. I for example do not use that patch as it causes some problems in my system. Adding .elf just to tell me I should use RUNELF won't hurt anyone. If you use LoadSegPatch having .elf in the name also causes no problems. That's my point. -- Daddy, what FORMATTING DRIVE C: means? Marcin mailto:carlos@amiga.com.pl http://www.wfmh.org.pl From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Thu Apr 30 00:22:01 1998 Received: from nevald.k-net.dk (nevald.k-net.dtu.dk [130.225.71.226]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA22267 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:15:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 20562 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1998 22:09:30 -0000 Received: from carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk (qmailr@192.38.212.2) by nevald.k-net.dtu.dk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1998 22:09:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 22897 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1998 22:09:24 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by carlsberg.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1998 22:09:24 -0000 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (rask@192.38.215.253) by k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk with SMTP; 29 Apr 1998 21:06:33 -0000 Date: 29 Apr 98 23:02:22 +0200 From: "Rask Ingemann Lambertsen" Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF To: "Amiga PowerPC developer mailing list" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1696.423T1124T13824188@kampsax.k-net.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list Den 28-Apr-98 21:25:53 skrev Marcin Orlowski fĝlgende om "Re: HUNK vs ELF": > On 28 Apr 1998, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote: >> > It would be nice if we could have kind of standard names for ppc objects. >> > I'd like to see all ELFs as #?.elf while HUNK can stay as #? as there's >> > no need of using extra tool like runelf to launch it. >> What extra tool? It's been a while since there was any need for runelf and >> the like. Hint: LoadSegPatch. > Well, indeed, however that makes no difference here. I for example > do not use that patch as it causes some problems in my system. Have you tried a more recent version than the first one to appear? > Adding .elf just to tell me I should use RUNELF won't hurt anyone. > If you use LoadSegPatch having .elf in the name also causes > no problems. That's my point. It does. There are incompatible ELF loaders out there, written for programs that can't be started by the LoadSegPatch. Adding .elf to programs that _can_ be started by the patch (and won't work with those obsolete ELF loaders) will just confuse the users. And adding ".elf" to e.g. "mpg123" does make the file name so much longer as to be annoying. Regards, /ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻTŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\ | Rask Ingemann Lambertsen | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk | | Registered Phase5 developer | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ | | A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64) | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC | | Windows NT is the OS of the future and always will be... | From amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Fri May 1 03:54:45 1998 Received: from mail-r1.shlink.de (mail-r1.shlink.de [194.64.6.19]) by amiga.com.pl (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA00917 for ; Fri, 1 May 1998 03:42:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.shlink.de (194.64.6.3) by mail-r1.shlink.de with smtp (Smail3.2.0.101 #9) id m0yV4ld-00014oC; Fri, 1 May 1998 03:37:37 +0200 (MEST) To: amigappc-dev@amiga.com.pl Message-ID: <1SI3JMD5131asz2@ark.news.wwbnet.de> From: ARK@News.wwbnet.de (Andreas R. Kleinert) Subject: Re: HUNK vs ELF Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:00:00 +0200 References: <1696.423T1124T13824188@kampsax.k-net.dk> Received: by News.wwbnet.de ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:48:04 +0100 Received: by apg.wwbnet.de ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:12:25 +0100 Reply-To: AmigaPPC developers' mailing list Sender: amigappc-dev-owner@amiga.com.pl Precedence: list You wrote at 29.04.1998/01:02:22: > It does. There are incompatible ELF loaders out there, written for Which ? (AFAIR We're talking about programs designed for CLI/Shell/WB usage, not custom loadable modules.) > programs that can't be started by the LoadSegPatch. Adding .elf to programs > that _can_ be started by the patch (and won't work with those obsolete ELF > loaders) will just confuse the users. And adding ".elf" to e.g. "mpg123" does > make the file name so much longer as to be annoying. My point of view: Add .elf to ELF modules. If one has installed the LoadSegPatch, he can remove the .elf extension and e.g. copy UnARJ.elf over his old 68k UnARJ. (*) If one does not like to install that patch or wants to use PPC and 68k versions in parallel, he can let everything as it is. That .elf is just for purposes of information - it's better than having to look into the file to find out. I can't see, why that should be a bad thing for the average user. Especially *before* installation took place. Anyway: each program comes with a manual, so if people are getting 'confused', it's their own fault (RTFM). Nevertheless, programmers should agree on a common standard. Ralph Schmidt used .elf for the Examples, Jim Cooper uses .elf for his LHA port - so why not stay with this. (*) if 68k and PPC version come in the same archive, one has to distinct these, anway - so an .elf extension for the PPC version is just fine; if one doesn't like that, one better should use the HUNK format directly (and make sure, that the program gives an error message like 'PPC required', when there's no ppc.library). For these, extension .ppc seems to make sense, too: Take LZX as example - it comes in three versions, LZX_68000EC, LZX_68020, LZX_68040. Nobody will keep these: one simply will copy one of them to "LZX". Why should that be different for e.g. LZX.ppc ? It's just simple and natural. -- Andreas_Kleinert@t-online.de | ARK@amigaworld.com | Fido 2:2457/350.18 ARK@superview.ftn.neckar-alb.de | ARK@News.wwbnet.de | - *SuperView* - PerSuaSiVe SoftWorX - http://home.t-online.de/home/Andreas_Kleinert/ Image Engineer Registration Site Europe --- Software Engineering -- MicroDot 1.17beta3 registered