Copyright 1987 by CompuServe AmigaForum and Jay Miner. A formal conference with Jay Miner was held on AmigaForum CO channel 2 on 27-MAY-1987. The topic was open. The following is a heavily edited transcript of that conference. Guest speaker's and moderator's comments are identified with their initials, I.E., "JM:". Forum members are designated with their names inside parenthesis, I.E., (David Johnson). Other editing included the unraveling of interleaved comments, correction of obvious line noise problems, deletion of unrelated remarks, and paragraph formatting. Editorial comments added after the fact (by me) are presented in square brackets. The original, unedited conference transcript will be available through the end of May; please contact me if interested. Following the transcript is a modified /UST listing of all who actively participated in the conference. In addition to the people listed, however, there were many other forum members in att the floor is now open for questions... you all know the protocol. (David Johnson) ? (Michael M. Merrow) ? (John Little) ? RR: David Johnson, you were first. Go ahead. (David Johnson) Jay you have mentioned that the rgb output on the 2000 is inferior to the 1000, any comments? JM: David, no, the RGB output should be identical. The same chips are used, they may have improved the output analog circuits some, but I doubt it. RR: David, followup question on the same subject? (David Johnson) Another question about the extra lines on the AGNUS chip... will we see any upgrades in the future. Perhaps like 1024 resolution non- interlaced or 2 megabyte addressing for chip mem. JM: Yes Dave, the revised Agnus chip I was working on recently was designed to work with Video Ram to produce 1024x1024 displays and provide 2 meg chip address, and larger blitter area moves. It is just about finished... now however who knows how long before they design a machine to actually use it. RR: Jay, would you care to hazard a guess? Next generation? Two generations from now? No comment? JM: My guess is the next generation will use the new Agnus and be at least 18 months more in coming. RR: Michael Merrow, you were next. (Michael M. Merrow) Jay, how easy (i.e. cheap, compatible) is it on the 2000 for some third party just to remove interlace. JM: Mich, there is a way, I saw one working in Los Gatos about 3 months ago. It was a frame buffer that had a full (640 by 480) non-interlaced display and it was gorgeous! It worked off the standard software (hi res) and should be fairly easy to design. I don't know what has happened to it but someone at CBM is reputed to be working on it. RR: Michael, any followup question on that subject? (Marlene/Sysop) ? (Michael M. Merrow) Just a guess please, but how soon might we see it after the 2000? JM: Mich, if someone doesn't come out with it in the next year, I will be surprised. RR: Jay, was this an external device, expansion buss card, or perhaps for the video slot? JM: It was an external device, but required some sync wires and connections to the digital output before the color output ladder. RR: How complex was this device; I.E., care to estimate how much one might retail for? (Mike Jeskin) ? JM: The main complexity was the size of the memory buffer, and you can price that. The rest would probably fit in a couple of custom chips. RR: John Little, you were next. (Fadi Khulusi/MicroP) ? (John Little) Jay, two questions: do you believe that with the new leaders at Commodore they are capable of building a workstation around the Amiga now or in the future; and what about the new long phosphor monitors, are they worth the buy for CAD work? JM: I'll talk phospors first. I had a LP tube on my desk at LG [Los Gatos] for the last year, and loved it. I've just been waiting for CBM to get the price down so I can replace my Sony here at home. The hi res flicker is gone, and the trails are not bad enough to realy hurt animation. About CBM and workstations... CBM has some very good engineers, as does Germany; they could do it if management will listen, but I doubt that they will... they didn't listen to LG or the better engineers there. (John Little) Thank you for your honesty. (David Johnson) ? (Vance) ? (Claude J. Gosch) ? RR: Maybe the change in management will have a positive effect on that. Folks, since the queue is starting to fill up, I'm going to disallow followups after the next questioner. Marlene, you were next. (Marlene/Sysop) Hi Jay, could you give us some insight into top management's view about third party hardware developers and their role in the market place? JM: Marlene, I'm sure that by now they appreciate them more than in the past, but since I haven't met the new CEO yet I can't say for sure. (Marlene/Sysop) Well, I heard today from the CBM reps here in NY that the 1000+1000 upgrade is a reality... that doesn't sound like 3rd party support to me?!!! JM: I havent heard. What is a 1000+1000? (Marlene/Sysop) The rumored CMB upgrade policy: your A1000 + $1000 gets you a 2000. JM: Oh I see. I suppose that would harm hardware developers? If you have a view on that I suggest sending it to Irving Gould at CBM Westchester. RR: Marlene, this looks like an excellent topic for discussion; perhaps if Jay is willing to stay around a few minutes after the CO we can chat about it. (Marlene/Sysop) ok Rick RR: Mike Jeskin, go ahead. (Mike Jeskin) Hi Jay! Having just traveled for the first time in a year I am wondering if there could be a briefcase Amiga in the works anywhere, and also is there any chance of seeing some new printer drivers in the future? JM: That is a good idea, also a real portable, but I haven't heard a thing from anyone about such plans. I would like one too!! RR: Jay, how about rack mount for control, scientific, and musical (road) applications? JM: Rick, the 1000 was designed with rack mount in mind, it would be easy. RR: Are you suggesting that perhaps a simple adapter would do the trick? JM: Yes a simple rack adaptor should do it. RR: Okay. I sort of jumped the gun... how about Mike's other question? (Sorry Mike!) JM: Mike, no I haven't heard a thing, I will ask one of the software guys next time I see one, sorry. RR: Fadi Khulusi, you were next. (Fadi Khulusi/MicroP) Jay, are you now actively involved in the design process of future generartion machines or just consulting part time? JM: Fadi, I am on retainer to CBM as a consultant, and have assisted in the revised Agnus chip over the last 4 months. That is finished now, and I don't know what use CBM will be making of me if any. I am also consulting on the design of pacemaker chips for a small company called Ventritex here in Sunnyvale and for a toy company. Mostly I'm just resting. (Fadi Khulusi/MicroP) Jay, good luck! JM: thanks RR: Jay, do you think at this time that they'll be calling you in soon for another project? JM: Somehow I doubt it. I told them lots of things they didn't believe, and I doubt they will want my "told you so's". (Ted Haskell) ?? (John/TCR) ?? RR: Hmm, not encouraging. David Johnson, you were next. (David Johnson) Jay, it was rumoured that the current agnus packet was designed with a 2 meg upgraade in mind. Is this the revision you were working on? JM: Depends on what you mean by "current Packet" (David Johnson) The socket design. JM: There is a new Agnus in the 500 (or supposed to be) that is called "Fat Agnus". That is just the old Agnus with some of the "Glue logic" pulled inside of the chip package. The "Super Hi-res Agnus" is the one with 1024x1024 and 2 meg address range, and is the one I helped with. Vance, you were next. (Michael M. Merrow) ? (Claude Gosch) ? (Vance) Are there any plans to increase the color palette on the next generation chips and amount of colors displayed on screen without interupts? JM: The colors could be increased to 64 but this would lock out the processor completly from chip memory, but only in lo res mode. This however was not done for reasons of time and chip area. RR: Claude Gosch, you were next. (Claude J. Gosch) A quick followup on Fat Agnus & a question. Is the Fat Agnus used in the 2000 - will it be used in the future production of the 1000? Also, is slow hard drive data transfer caused in any way by hardware limits, or is it software only? JM: I don't think Fat Agnus is actually used yet in any machine. And I believe that the large package will prove uneconomical, and CBM will return to the regular AGNUS AND a gate array chip that can replace Fat Agnus. Just my prediction. RR: So, what you meant before was that Fat Agnus was _supposed_ to be in the 500? JM: Yes. Note, Fat Agnus is not the new super hi res Agnus. I have no idea about the hard drive problems mentioned. RR: Okay. (We will have a future CO on that subject, folks; stay tuned.) Ted Haskell, you were next. (David Johnson) ?? (Ted Haskell) I hate asking questions like this but... [1] Considering our throw-away and turn-key society do you feel that Amiga owners and vendors will always be a minority sort of on their own? And... [2] What did you expect the user environment to be when the A1000 was being developed? JM: Ted, I'm afraid that CBM just can't out-advertise Apple and IBM now, if they ever could (not just because of budget), and this dooms us to the fate you suggest. I have been consistently appalled at the ads and now I haven't seen an ad since last summer. On the user environment, I expected people to be developing on the Amiga itself, instead of on a SUN or something, but the software guys insisted on Suns. RR: John at TCR, you were next. (John/TCR) Jay, You *made* the Amiga chip set (as well as others); can you give us an idea of what goes into designing a custom chipset for a computer like the Amiga. What is your educational background and emphasis?? JM: John, I got my BS (bull____) from UC berkeley in '58, and started designing chips in '64, after first doing servo motors, transformers, and exploding bolts. Then in 1966 I started doing chips with GME... and I have done chips for almost every semiconductor company in the valley. I did calculator chips until the 6502 came out. Then I did video chips for Atari. Then I did computer chips for pacemakers for Zymos. Then in 82 we started Amiga (whew), and I guess you know the rest. About designing chips like these, the active participation of good software guys and hardware guys is what does the trick. Also, running a good brainstorming session is not easy; it is a fine line between fighting and brainstorming, and it must be pushed just the right amount. Also attention to detail, and most important is to shoot high enough; thats the biggest problem, setting your sights high enough. (John/TCR) Thanks Jay! (Whew, busy guy!!) RR: Jay, a point worth highlighting... it seems that every engineer and his brother are now doing FLPA and ASIC design. But what you are talking about here is often radically different, and you've been doing it long before the acronym "ASIC" was even used. Correct, or all wet? JM: Yes Rick, it doesn't matter really how you build the chips... Gate Array, standard cell, etc. What counts is the specifications and instructions, and designing them so the user (read programmer) can understand them. RR: Okay, I just wanted to point out that, although everyone is "designing custom chips" these days, your phrase "I did calculator chips UNTIL the 6502" goes back quite a ways and indicates a great deal of experience in the field. Michael Merrow, you were next. (Michael Merrow) Perhaps this is too broad a question, and it may not have an answer, but there have been recent rumors about software compatibility problems with the new machines. If these rumors are true, can you give us some insight as to what may be creating the problems? JM: I haven't heard of these problems, so I'm no help. Sorry. RR: Claude Gosch, you are next. (Claude J. Gosch) Jay, what do you see for the future of the 1000... obsolescence or redesign for reduced cost? JM: Claude, the cost reduced 1000 was the bigest battle I fought (and lost) at Commodore. It still hurts. I hope they see the error of their ways soon, but I doubt it. They put a godawful lot of money into the 500 and 2000, and could have had a cost reduced 1000 to sell for $30 more than the 500 with 1/10 the budget, and shown that, CBM could support a machine for more than one year. It makes me sad. RR: David Johnson, you were next. (David Johnson) Jay, would you care to comment about the differences between the Westchester and the German designs of the 2000. Are there any advantages of one over the other. JM: Dave, Westchester didn't have a 2000, Los Gatos had the 2000 that was competing with Germany. It had Zorro style Amiga expansion slots only, but we could squeeze in 2 IBM slots with a revision in time for Christmas if they wanted. They said this wasn't enough IBM slots, and Germany would build it by Christmas. We all know what happened to that (last estimate July?). The main difference (other than more slots) was the shape of the slots. The LG engineers felt that IBM slots would be hard to shield and hard to cool, and wanted CBM to support the Zorro card shape. CBM picked the German 2000 instead. And that's a quick summary. (David Johnson) Thanks Jay ! RR: Okay folks, it's time to wind this down. I want to thank Jay for taking the time to be with us here tonight and as always, thanks to you members for putting up with your fumble-fingered moderator! Jay, if you could stay around a few minutes (no obligation, though), I'm sure our members would enjoy chatting with you. JM: Sure Okay, folks... ... it's all yours! [At this point the formal conference ended, but Jay and several members stayed around and chatted for p 8 t"*( t 8( kut*((*"8*"t0& t" " &0)^ ,2 &$ !t " 8**"t0*!t& $(8 "j__|0"8!t0(" +xtb(t<0"8*"t$&*6( ("t0!t* 't"8 *t$&* 2 8*+t" 8*u problem. I didn't know if you had ever seen this before. RR: Jay, do you feel that _any_ package has yet come near using Ami's full audio capabilities? (I have an opinion, I'm curious about yours) JM: Rick, I was very impressed when Bob Hoover [Mimetics] came over and did a SoundScape demo. I have a CZ230S and it works great. RR: Do you feel then that SoundScape fully utilizes the Amiga's sound capabilities? JM: Rick, can't think of anything it doesn't use. RR: Understand, I don't think there's anything wrong with SoundScape Pro MIDI; it's one of the most versatile packages out there, and I use it myself... but I don't think it stretches the Amiga as far as sound generation is concerned. Nobody has gone beyond the basic "what it says in the Amiga manuals" approach yet. I think the Amiga is capable of quite a bit more, and it'll just take time. (Vance) Are there any plans to make the other chips you developed more powerful, I.E. a palette of 256 luminences of red blue green and 8 bit planes? JM: I have some ideas, but CBM hasn't expressed any interest yet. They do have some good engineers, and I'm sure they also have lots of good ideas. Generally higher resolution means fewer colors however, or more cost. (Scott S.) Jay, What about the release date of the 2000? JM: I can't be sure, but I feel they are having tough FCC noise problems, and we will see delay after delay. Just guessing. (Scott S.) Shouldn't sell my 1000 just yet eh? JM: No, it might even appreciate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- User User ID Nod Rm Name / Forum Area ---- ------------ --- --- ----------------- 17 76703,4253 RIC 2 Rick/SYSOP 39 76515,3476 DNC 2 Scott S. 44 76515,3055 EVI 2 Dave Ramsden 51 73577,123 BOO 2 Ted Haskell 75 73250,12 HAR 2 Michael M. Merrow 81 73200,3553 DET 2 David Kieltyka 82 73557,1223 TTO 2 David Johnson 88 76046,3160 SMO 2 Jay G. Miner 92 73017,3224 TTO 2 Peter Hodgins 94 76406,25 WPK 18 Marlene/Sysop 110 72447,2161 NYY 2 Vance