From: carriert@uicc.com (Tom Carrier) Subject: Product Listing.... Could someone plese send me the address for the product listing. Thanks in advance. [Ed. note-- Please send it directly to Tom, not to me. -Eric] Tom Carrier CAD Software Support Unitrode Integrated Circuit Corp. Merrimack, NH carriert@uicc.com From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Modules etc. >From: Mark Hazen >Subject: Modules etc. >Winters Death > >Has anyone heard anything about an English translation? Any noise from >CG or Frazer on this one? Anyways does anyone have any ideas (knowledge) of >how >we the non-German speaking world can put pressure on for an English version? The big question I have is whether Columbia knew about it, authorized it (legal matters, etc.), and, if so, why they did not make it available to the rest of us through normal channels. As for putting pressure on for an English translation, the answer is $. ;-) >Campaign story lines. > >In my groups campaign I have been keeping a narative of the various groups of >characters adventures over the last several years. ... >I should note that a couple >of my narrative have reached sizes of over 100k ie they can be large. I will >look into compressing them before sending them to people (I think). I would be interested in reading these (and might be talked into some cursory editing). How about putting them on sunbane (in additon to mailing them out)? ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu *'M ST*P*D - I'd like to buy a vowel Pat, an 'O' please. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: RE: Sidhe + Mystery of Death >From: Mark Hazen >Subject: RE: Sidhe + Mystery of Death > > >From: Magnus Lycka > >How to we treat the humans on Yashain, and other people leading an > >after-life? >There is a section in Curse of Hlen dealing with interactions with the >armies of Larani, I do not have the module with me, but I think that >they are resurrected the next day with wounds all healed much like in >the Norse Mythology. How about some sort of psychic damage (to the soul, Aura, whatever) that takes longer to heal or that shows up in a person's Aura (and that was visible with "True Sight" type spells, etc.) Resurrection should also be an exhausting experience and require lots of rest (on Yashain at least, regardless of Norse mythology). > >Another interresting question is: What happens when a powerful mage dies? > >If he goes to live on Yashain, where he might well have been before, can he > >then return to Kethira or Midgaad or wherever he came from. In that case: >How > >do you get rid of a bad mage. Where is Lothrim for instance? Are the magical > >abilities lost when you die (sounds unlikely that one who mastered magic on > >Kethira would fail in the magic strong Yashain) or are the dead people > >"locked" on Yashain in some fashion? Is it perhaps necessary to trap or > >destroy the soul of a mage to get rid of him? >There is a question in my mind as to whether a bad mage even goes to >Yashain, she/he would have to have been a worshipper of a particular >god so that their soul gets snatched and hauled off to the right >place. Else where do they go - onto an eternal reincarnation cycle >until they do something to bring them to the notice of a particular >god? I think only the most faithful get brought to life on Yashain >and these are constrained to follow the wishes of the God. Except for >the really rare individuals who get higher status (demi-god, or >demi-demi God) and have more freedom of action. (kind of a depressing >notion of afterlife now that I think about it). Then there are the >mages who have pissed of a demon or other supernatural creature and do >not have the protection of a God, "crunch crunch, what a tasty little >soul". The freedom of action part is important, IMHO. I always pictured the trip from Kethira to Yashain as one way. Nobody, except the usual demi-whatever characters, could go back without finding a brand new way to do so ON YASHAIN. The whole transition would also be rather discombobulating so that it would take a while for skills and the body itself to adjust to the new world (more than is required for Barasi points, Gate of Kemdal, etc.) since the soul is now tied to a whole different plane of existence. It's sort of like tax laws for resident aliens versus those on tourist visas. You gotta learn a whole new set of rules when you move to Yashain permanently. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu *'M ST*P*D - I'd like to buy a vowel Pat, an 'O' please. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: more spells >From: lees@snoopy.asf.com (Lee Short) >Subject: more spells In general I've gotta agree with R. B. Schmunk's comments about convocation, except some of the energy/fatigue stuff should be grey/neutral with the new rules). > MURAZOR'S CLOUD (PELEAHN/VIII) This spell actually seems to be too high on first inspection. The cloud is not particuarly dangerous and temporary and limited in its effects. The only real powerful effect is its growing size. Sounds great for covering a few companies of soldiers moving about, but still seems like it should be of much lower level. > MURAZOR'S SUMMONING (PELEAHN/VIII) This is a great spell, but there are a few questions I have (and which apply to all summonings): How does the spell pick out which elemental to summon? What are some examples of the fire elementals that could be summoned? Does MS and CS allow the elemental to move beyond/use its powers beyond the seed? How do uncontrolled elementals behave? > MURAZOR'S HASTENING (PELEAHN/VIII) > MURAZOR'S FIELD (PELEAHN/X) Two very interesting high level spells that both seem essentially Peleahn. Good stuff. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu *'M ST*P*D - I'd like to buy a vowel Pat, an 'O' please. From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: more spells pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Generally looks like a good bunch of spells to me. The only problem I have on first glance is the convocations mentioned above. Then again, working on the theory that a mage should be able to duplicate within his convocation a spell he's observed, perhaps they can be done. Now, can someone offer a rationale in these cases? (Klaus, you're good at this. Any comments?) I would certainly like to hear the author's explanation. Generally you might consider metabolism a sort of fire, or you might extend peleahn to cover energy in general. lees@snoopy.asf.com (Lee Short) Here are a few more spells, mostly Peleahn. One of the neater combinations is: Trigger + Awakening of Murazor for a method of sleeping and keeping guard at the same time. FRESHENING OF MURAZOR (PELEAHN/IV) Why would you want this spell? As written, it simply gives any observers the impression that you are less tired than you really are. If it also decreases physical penalty from fatigue, it would be worthwile. AWAKENING OF MURAZOR (PELEAHN/II) If you consider metabolism a peleahn process, you might of course waken someone by increasing his metabolism to the "awake" rate. However, such fine control would IMHO be difficult. This is one of the cases where I would let a sorcerer of one convocation (peleahn) create an effect belonging more naturally in another (fyvria), but at the cost of a higher complexity level. I think level II is too low for a _peleahn_ spell with this effect. PERCEPTION OF MURAZOR (PELEAHN/I) This spell determines the level of metabolism of a single non-Peleahn creature. The basic spell simply determines if the creature is conscious or unconscious. I would assign this a higher level. Also, I would let the basic spell distinguish death, hibernation and "active" life. Bonus effects might then detect sleep, unconciousness and resting. You could place the detect sleep bonus effect so low that a peleahn shek pvar would get it at learning the spell, while someone learning as a secondary would have to practise to get there. I am not sure about unconciousness. Does it decrease your rate of metabolism? I would guess that it depends on the cause. Hypothermia and oxygen deprivation: yes, a knock on the head: ?, high fever: no. MURAZOR'S HASTENING (PELEAHN/VIII) Me like! This would have considerably lower level as a Fyvria/Savorya combo (you also have to think fast), but then only a grey sorcerer could use it. A spell that simply let you run/swim/... faster, and gave some combat bonuses due to speed, but did not give you more actions, that is let you make more decisions, would also be easier. Klaus O K From: lees@snoopy.asf.com (Lee Short) Subject: more spells Further responses to comments on my last batch of spells: >From Klaus O K > FRESHENING OF MURAZOR (PELEAHN/IV) > >Why would you want this spell? As written, it simply gives any observers the >impression that you are less tired than you really are. That's the point. This spell was explicitly developed to give the impression that my Shek-Pvar had had a perfectly normal, restful night when in fact he had a *very* busy night. > AWAKENING OF MURAZOR (PELEAHN/II) > >If you consider metabolism a peleahn process, you might of course waken >someone by increasing his metabolism to the "awake" rate. However, such >fine control would IMHO be difficult. This is one of the cases where I >would let a sorcerer of one convocation (peleahn) create an effect belonging >more naturally in another (fyvria), but at the cost of a higher complexity >level. I think level II is too low for a _peleahn_ spell with this effect. I didn't consider any fine control as necessary at all. You just give their metabolism a jump-start, and they'll wake up. I call this the "Jolt!" spell. > PERCEPTION OF MURAZOR (PELEAHN/I) >I would assign this a higher level. So would I. However, I wasn't doing the assigning, my GM was. I think I had placed it at III or maybe IV. >I am not sure about unconciousness. Does it decrease your rate of >metabolism? I would guess that it depends on the cause. Hypothermia >and oxygen deprivation: yes, a knock on the head: ?, high fever: no. A perceptive comment. This needs to be better specified. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) >> MURAZOR'S CLOUD (PELEAHN/VIII) > >This spell actually seems to be too high on first inspection. The cloud is >not particuarly dangerous and temporary and limited in its effects. To me, it is the extreme density of the cloud that makes it so very useful -- it reduces visibility to a mere 12 - SI feet. That's short enough to make any defense against a missile attack impossible, and defense against a melee attack is very difficult. The coughing and choking makes effective defensive measures (bundle up in the corner behind your shield, etc.) more difficult. This spell truly comes into its own when you can make SI of your companions immune. >> MURAZOR'S SUMMONING (PELEAHN/VIII) > >This is a great spell, but there are a few questions I have (and which >apply to all summonings): How does the spell pick out which elemental to >summon? This depends on your view of where elementals come from when they're summoned, and how the summoning works. I don't really have an in-depth explanation of this. Ideas, anyone? >What are some examples of the fire elementals that could be >summoned? I think there are some in the Bestiary section of HM. Your GM or you will have to develop others as needed. >Does MS and CS allow the elemental to move beyond/use its powers >beyond the seed? Yes, it can move at will outside the seed fire for the duration of the spell. Sorry, this isn't clear at all from the spell description? >How do uncontrolled elementals behave? Depends on the individual elemental. Given that the elemental was summarily yanked away from whatever it *was* doing, it's probably not going to be too friendly toward the caster. It may, however, ignore him/her and pick on easier victims -- or even decide it wants to go back to whatever it was doing, and just leave. thanks for the feedback, Lee Lee Short lees@asf.com "They want you to trust in the power they're wielding You might as well jump from the top of a building." -- Graham Parker From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: New Savorya spell With Mark Hazen and Lee Short contributing a bunch of new spells, I find myself in the mood to create a few, despite not currently participating in a HarnCampaign. First out of the gate is: Savorya V Calspeth's Lance A spell which inflicts a powerful psionic shock in its victim, inducing symptoms much like fatigue and head pains. The basic spell requires the victim be touched. The victim may test his Endurance to determine whether he avoids being affected; roll against Endurance x 2 (MS) or Endurance (CS). The effect on the victim is determined as follows: CS Victim accrues 1d6 fatigue points and feels a slight headache. MS Victim accrues 3d6 fatigue points and feels a powerful headache for SI/6 minutes. Victim may continue current activity by testing against Endurance x 7 each minute. MF Victim accrues 5d6 fatigue points and is felled by a blinding headache for SI minutes. Victim may continue current activity by testing against Endurance x 4 each minute. CF Victim accrues 7d6 fatigue points and is felled by a migraine headache for SI x 3 minutes. Victim must abandon current activity. [Ed. note-- I think that Robert has the CS-CF backwards. CF=1d6, MF=3d6, MS=5d6, and CS=7d6 fatigue points. I was reading and it just sounded backwards. -Eric] A victim forced to abandon his current activity will most desire to seek a dark, quiet place in which to suffer in peace. Fatigue points inflicted by Lance should be included in physical penalty if is necessary to perform an activity such as Dodge while finding such a place. Special Bonus: A caster with the psionic talent Mental Bolt adds his SI to Arrow EML. Bonus Effects ML41+ Touch no longer required. Range is ML feet. ML71+ Effect may (at caster's discretion) be over a zone whose radius from the caster is SI yards. All creatures (except the caster) within the zone are affected. ML86+ Specified creature(s) may be excluded from the effect of the spell when it is cast. Fatigue: (15-SI)x3.5 Time: (15-SI)x2 seconds Range: Basic, touch ML41+, ML feet Duration: See above Comments welcome of course. Note that I figure this spell is about equivalent to Bolt of Mintara in Complexity. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: THE_DA-DA_DUMMY Subject: Re: more spells >Basically, my reasoning is that speed/motion/metabolic rate >is a Peleahn principle, and things that manipulate or perceive this >principle are Peleahn. I would also say that there are Fyvrian >methods of obtaining the same effect, by manipulating the biological >processes that control these things, rather than manipulating the >things themselves. Um, I really can't find the difference between 'the biological processes' and the'things'. Metabolic rate *IS* a biological function. A strong argument can be made for the other processes as well. I *DO* believe that the effects described can be created using Peleahn principles, but not because of that reason. The princples of forcefull action and combustion (that's one way of interacting with the body.... I often have a problem with the constant well, that spounds Fyvrian to me arguments.... Perhaps we should ask that spells have some of thier reasoning spelled out. On the otherhand, we will all assuredly have our own takes on the principles and how they act, and will disagree with many other takes. Witness this very post... -Duncan From: THE_DA-DA_DUMMY Subject: Re: more spells "To me, it is the extreme density of the cloud that makes it so very useful -- it reduces visibility to a mere 12 - SI feet. That's short enough to make any defense against a missile attack impossible, and defense against a melee attack is very difficult. The coughing and choking makes effective defensive measures (bundle up in the corner behind your shield, etc.) more difficult. This spell truly comes into its own when you can make SI of your companions immune." Are you saying that the level of the spell is raised because of the *usefullnes* of the spell? i believe that level should be a function of *energy expenditure* i.e. how much energy would be needed to create the effect in question. How many ergs or newtons or footpounds, etc of work is done... For some of the more esoteric esoterica that is very open to debate I relize, but saying a spell should cost more because it is a good aplication of principles is dangerous. One of the important skills in spell casting is the use of small energy expenditures carefully crafted and directed to great effect. -Duncan From: Sean Matheis Subject: Re: New Savorya spell > CS Victim accrues 1d6 fatigue points and feels a slight > headache. > MS Victim accrues 3d6 fatigue points and feels a powerful > headache for SI/6 minutes. Victim may continue current > activity by testing against Endurance x 7 each minute. > MF Victim accrues 5d6 fatigue points and is felled by a > blinding headache for SI minutes. Victim may continue > current activity by testing against Endurance x 4 each > minute. > CF Victim accrues 7d6 fatigue points and is felled by a > migraine headache for SI x 3 minutes. Victim must abandon > current activity. > > [Ed. note-- I think that Robert has the CS-CF backwards. CF=1d6, > MF=3d6, MS=5d6, and CS=7d6 fatigue points. I was reading and it just > sounded backwards. -Eric] Actually, I think these results are supposed to represent the End roll the victim makes, not the casting of the spell. From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: more spells >>> MURAZOR'S CLOUD (PELEAHN/VIII) >> >>This spell actually seems to be too high on first inspection. The cloud is >>not particuarly dangerous and temporary and limited in its effects. > >To me, it is the extreme density of the cloud that makes it so very >useful -- it reduces visibility to a mere 12 - SI feet. That's short >enough to make any defense against a missile attack impossible, and >defense against a melee attack is very difficult. The coughing and >choking makes effective defensive measures (bundle up in the corner >behind your shield, etc.) more difficult. This spell truly comes into >its own when you can make SI of your companions immune. It would also make missle attacks IN very difficult! I agree about the spell's effects being a real hindrance, just not an 8th level hindrance. Compare its power to aid melee to other lower level spells. Now I think that spell complexity ought to be determined by the difficulty of creating the form and the amound of principle to be controlled, but reality and the SP guidelines both say that the spell's relationship to other spells already in the game is a good guide to complexity. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge sucessfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you. -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: New Savorya spell >Savorya V >Calspeth's Lance > >A spell which inflicts a powerful psionic shock in its victim, >inducing symptoms much like fatigue and head pains. The basic >spell requires the victim be touched. The victim may test his >Endurance to determine whether he avoids being affected; roll >against Endurance x 2 (MS) or Endurance (CS). The effect on the >victim is determined as follows: If the effect is psionic shouldn't the victim's Aura play some role, or does Aura not figure in psionic defence? >CS Victim accrues 1d6 fatigue points and feels a slight > headache. >MS Victim accrues 3d6 fatigue points and feels a powerful > headache for SI/6 minutes. Victim may continue current > activity by testing against Endurance x 7 each minute. >MF Victim accrues 5d6 fatigue points and is felled by a > blinding headache for SI minutes. Victim may continue > current activity by testing against Endurance x 4 each > minute. >CF Victim accrues 7d6 fatigue points and is felled by a > migraine headache for SI x 3 minutes. Victim must abandon > current activity. > >[Ed. note-- I think that Robert has the CS-CF backwards. CF=1d6, >MF=3d6, MS=5d6, and CS=7d6 fatigue points. I was reading and it just >sounded backwards. -Eric] I think he has it right. This is the victim's roll, aka Saving Roll. Apparantly, MS/CS has no differential effect in terms of Lance's effectiveness. >Bonus Effects > >ML41+ Touch no longer required. Range is ML feet. >ML71+ Effect may (at caster's discretion) be over a zone whose > radius from the caster is SI yards. All creatures (except > the caster) within the zone are affected. >ML86+ Specified creature(s) may be excluded from the effect of > the spell when it is cast. It occurred to me while reading this that lots of spells allow this sort of progression of abilities (i.e. broadcasting effects and then excluding individuals). How do others deal with this in terms of PCs using the spell between ML 71 and 86 without zapping their companions and then using both abilities at ML86+? I know I'd do so as a PC. As a GM I think I would make CFs broadcast, but that still kinda lets the PC off the hook since they never have to successfully use the broadcasting ability in its indiscriminate mode to eventually be able to exclude their buddies. Ideas? ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge sucessfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you. -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Morgathian/Navehan encounter idea I thought this might make a great little encounter (or rumor) for PCs in places with Navehan or Morgathian temples. It shouldn't take too much imagination to change the details. It comes originally from a post to the WWII list by Dr.John Gillies: >One of my favourites is recounted in Allport & Postman's "The >Psychology of Rumor" (1947): It goes something like this: >Amid the ruins of post-war Berlin, a young girl is hurrying along >the Knesebeckstrasse when she is confronted by an elderly man, blind >and tapping along with a cane. "Can you help me, please?" he asks, >"I need to find the address on this envelope" - and he holds out a >letter. The girl looks at it and tells the old man that, >unfortunately, he still has several blocks to go. "Ach, I'm so tired, >" he says, "I've walked so far already. I don't suppose I could ask >you to deliver it for me, if you're going that way?" >The girl agrees and takes the letter, but as she hurries off >something makes her glance back - and she sees the "blind" man, his >cane now tucked under his arm, heading off at a brisk pace. >Instead of delivering the letter, she takes it to the police - who go >to the address on the letter and find a house where meat is being >cooked and prepared for sale on the black market. On inspection, it >turns out to be human flesh. They open the envelope which the girl has >given them. The note inside reads: "This is the last one I am sending >you today". Enjoy. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge sucessfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you. -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: another perverse idea This is forwarded from the Medieval History list and was originally posted by William Diebold. In this case, details should be fewer and easier to change. I imagine that Agrikans might find it especially appropriate for final sacrifices. Indeed, PCs might easier misinterpret (or "under" interpret) either the object itself or a depiction of it, especially if the later was abstract or worn with age. Might make for some really dangerous experimentation... > This story, told in many classical sources (Polybius being perhaps >the most detailed) concerns Phalaris, the sixth-century B.C. tyrant of >Agrigentum. A bronze bull was made for him by an artist named Perillus. The >unusual feature of this bull was that it was an execution device. Humans, >when cooked inside it, would scream; because of Perillus's ingenuity, their >screams would be transmuted into a sound which simulated the roaring of a >bull. Although Phalaris was famous for his cruelty, even he found this a bit >much and he made Perillus the bull's first victim. > This story is included in Orosius' History and was picked up from >there in the passage describing the paintings at Ingelheim in Ermoldus >Nigellus's poem in honor of Louis the Pious (the relevant passage is easily >available in translation in P. Godman, Poetry of the Carolingian Renaissance >or C. Davis-Weyer, Early Medieval Art). ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge sucessfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you. -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: bibliography I have just been going through all of my old saved messages and have compiled a bunch of scattered bibliographic items into a single semi-formatted and annotated Harn-related list. The main topics are bow and arrows and novels/fiction, but there is some other stuff. Anyone who wants a copy of this Word 4.0 for Mac document can email me directly. If I get enough replies I can post it to the list. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge sucessfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you. -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four From: Axel Schudak Subject: Winter's Dead (last one) I called tho owner of Mania Productions yesterday and asked her some questions: First : You can order the module directly from the company (use already posted adress), but payment must be in advance. Concrete information is available via fax by the company Second : Die Toten des Winters will be translated (by MP) and published in English by CG (enjoy !). This may need some time, but all maps are ready, the stuff is already published, translation will be ready soon, so it is entirely up to CG (My estimation is 1998). Axel From: John Lambert Subject: Re: Welcome [Ed. Note -- John is responding to the welcome message. I thought all of you might have suggestions for his question. -Eric] > Welcome to the Harnlist. It's a rather informal association to say > the least, but it gives those playing Harn a resoruce to ask questions and > just shoot the breeze about the system and/or world in general. We are now > spread over 10 countries on 4 continents. It seems that the long arms of good > gaming are everywhere. Well harn is a wonderful game. I only just recently got a hold of the main rule book. Is there only the 1986 edition or is there a more recent one? And which supplements and/or modules would you recommend to somebody new to Harnmaster? I already have the Lythia, Gods of harn, Melderyn and Tharda modules (they were what made me interested in harn). John. email: vidar@deakin.edu.au From: John Lambert Subject: Re: more spells > > >>> MURAZOR'S CLOUD (PELEAHN/VIII) > >> > >>This spell actually seems to be too high on first inspection. The cloud is > >>not particuarly dangerous and temporary and limited in its effects. > > > Although I haven't seen the original description of the spell I'd have to agree. From the discussion of it it seems to be little more than a spell that produces an obscuring cloud of smoke. So I would probably make it a level four spell. John. email: vidar@deakin.edu.au From: John Lambert Subject: Re: New Savorya spell > >Savorya V > >Calspeth's Lance > > > >A spell which inflicts a powerful psionic shock in its victim, > >inducing symptoms much like fatigue and head pains. The basic > >spell requires the victim be touched. The victim may test his > >Endurance to determine whether he avoids being affected; roll > >against Endurance x 2 (MS) or Endurance (CS). The effect on the > >victim is determined as follows: > > If the effect is psionic shouldn't the victim's Aura play some role, or > does Aura not figure in psionic defence? If aura did figure in psionic defence then why does the psionic ability mental bolt have no resistance? > >CS Victim accrues 1d6 fatigue points and feels a slight > > headache. > >MS Victim accrues 3d6 fatigue points and feels a powerful > > headache for SI/6 minutes. Victim may continue current > > activity by testing against Endurance x 7 each minute. > >MF Victim accrues 5d6 fatigue points and is felled by a > > blinding headache for SI minutes. Victim may continue > > current activity by testing against Endurance x 4 each > > minute. > >CF Victim accrues 7d6 fatigue points and is felled by a > > migraine headache for SI x 3 minutes. Victim must abandon > > current activity. > > > >[Ed. note-- I think that Robert has the CS-CF backwards. CF=1d6, > >MF=3d6, MS=5d6, and CS=7d6 fatigue points. I was reading and it just > >sounded backwards. -Eric] > > I think he has it right. This is the victim's roll, aka Saving Roll. > Apparantly, MS/CS has no differential effect in terms of Lance's > effectiveness. Yes you are right the results above are for the endurance test. The only affect a CS has is an increased likelihood of a failure. > It occurred to me while reading this that lots of spells allow this sort of > progression of abilities (i.e. broadcasting effects and then excluding > individuals). How do others deal with this in terms of PCs using the spell > between ML 71 and 86 without zapping their companions and then using both > abilities at ML86+? > > I know I'd do so as a PC. As a GM I think I would make CFs broadcast, but > that still kinda lets the PC off the hook since they never have to > successfully use the broadcasting ability in its indiscriminate mode to > eventually be able to exclude their buddies. > > Ideas? You could have the magician lose control of the spell on a CF. So that the effect is felt throughout the entire area of effect INCLUDING the caster. Or just the caster at low levels. John. email: vidar@deakin.edu.au From: Mark Hazen Subject: Re: more spells This is more of a general response on the matter of designing spells. (mostly because we were working on a new odivshe spell last night). There is a bit of a problem in my mind about how to assign levels to spells, personally, I find some of the official spells underpowered for the level. This may have something to do with the magic poor nature of Ketheria, but for example look at the difference between the Breath of Dhivu spell at level III and the level VIII spell called Orb or something. As a second point one can look at the damage from first level Peleahn spells as compared to first level spells of other convocations. There should be some sort of consistancy in power/difficulty accross convocations (especially since spell level is really an administrative device for dm's that may not be reflected in the player character's view point, that is Fenton the Peleahn mage does not say to himself "I think that I will create a third level spell to do this", he says "I think that if I creat a vessel of such and such characteristics and fill it with power and ethereal fire it will have the right effect". So has anyone else out there thought much about this (eg. Klaus??) I have tried to use examples from the books to set power level but have had a hard time reconsiling apparant power levels and effects between spells even within the same convocation. Note that I am not talking about the difference between a Peleahn trying to heal someone and a Fyvrian doing the same. but within a convocation at what level does power increase allow area effects - or independent movement of the spell effects etc. Another example, if a low level Lyavian spell can light up an area, then a low level Odivshe spell should be able to darken by the same amount. The amount a certain level spell can heat up for a Peleahn should be matched by an equivalent level spell by an odvishe spell to cool it down. If a certain level Fyvrian spell can twist wood then an equivalent level Jmorvian spell should be able to twist metal. The alternative is to say that certain convocations are more difficult to master and effect. If this is so my guess is that Peleahn is the least difficult to master at low levels and perhaps Fyvrian or Savoryan the most difficult. Comments? From: Mark Hazen Subject: More questions on Panaga (spoilers?) I guess firts of all, not having received any responses on my first query about Panaga, I have two options, everyone agrees with me, or I am way out to lunch (so far out it was not worth it) Oops a third option, everyone else has given up on the Panaga set of adventures already. Well not being the type to pick up on subtle persuasion like being ignored I am going to continue anyway. In the Panaga modules Panaga uses an amulet taken from Ikaras to cast very powerful Savoryan type spells on large groups of people, and he does this while not very proficient or well attuned to the artifact. My problem is this how are the spells maintained? What is the duration on them? The spell in Fanon's staff was described as being about a VIII Savoryan spell - and it took the magic of the Staff to fight it off over a number of years! This is an incredible duration for a spell that has not be installed in an artifact. Again in the Curse of Hlen, there is a spell that is given high level but has been maintained for about two years without an artifact to hold it. Not only that but the enchantment will effect others who stay in Hlen too long. How is this done??? I could see effecting all those people who were in the town at the time - or being reapplied when ever Panaga drops in, or being on an artifact left with Radin. An other possiblity is that the spell is driven by the dome in Varaxis. Without the constant powering of the spell it should be weaker on individual people so that it can be despelled one at a time. If it is powered by an artifact then I will have to make one up and place it somewhere. It occurs to me that even if it is powered from Varaxis there must be an artifact in Hlen to transfer it accross the planes. Any thoughts on this subject? mark hazen From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: New Savorya spell Well, since I'm the one who originally wrote the spell, I might as weel reply. >> >Savorya V >> >Calspeth's Lance >> > >> If the effect is psionic shouldn't the victim's Aura play some role, or >> does Aura not figure in psionic defence? > > If aura did figure in psionic defence then why does the psionic ability >mental bolt have no resistance? I hadn't thought about this one myself, as Lance is derived from another spell that didn't require an Aura test, but I agree with Mental Bolt analogy. >> >[Ed. note-- I think that Robert has the CS-CF backwards. CF=1d6, >> >MF=3d6, MS=5d6, and CS=7d6 fatigue points. I was reading and it just >> >sounded backwards. -Eric] >> >> I think he has it right. This is the victim's roll, aka Saving Roll. >> Apparantly, MS/CS has no differential effect in terms of Lance's >> effectiveness. > > Yes you are right the results above are for the endurance test. The >only affect a CS has is an increased likelihood of a failure. The success roll results apply to the *victim's* Endurance test. I'll make that more clear in the final form of the spell. >> It occurred to me while reading this that lots of spells allow this sort of >> progression of abilities (i.e. broadcasting effects and then excluding >> individuals). How do others deal with this in terms of PCs using the spell >> between ML 71 and 86 without zapping their companions and then using both >> abilities at ML86+? >> >> I know I'd do so as a PC. As a GM I think I would make CFs broadcast, but >> that still kinda lets the PC off the hook since they never have to >> successfully use the broadcasting ability in its indiscriminate mode to >> eventually be able to exclude their buddies. > > You could have the magician lose control of the spell on a CF. So that >the effect is felt throughout the entire area of effect INCLUDING the caster. >Or just the caster at low levels. First off, when a mage CFs, I start with the mis-fire tabel in TSP. Though I can't remember details, much of the table leans toward the mage damaging himself, such as Aural deadening (inability to cast masgic). However, when mis-effect is the result, two factors come into play: (1) how creative am I feeling and (2) has anybody in the gaming group been getting on my nerves. If the answer to (2) is true I am more likely for CFs to have widespread effect. However, I don't recall any mage in my last campaign trying any spell powerful enough to really damage the party during a misfire. In any event, now you know why the populace is leery of mages. It's only those adventurers who are crazy enough to hang aorund with them where they might get turned into toads. (Hmmm... sounds Fyvria to me.) But given the commentary, it looks like folks think the spell might be useful. Glad to hear it. Finally, a spell file update: since it was last archived to sunbane, I have added about 19 spells to MS Word spell file. I have about 5 more (by Lee and Mark) to evaluate and then I'll archive the new edition. I'll try to get it done this weekend. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: Welcome >From: John Lambert >Subject: Re: Welcome > >[Ed. Note -- John is responding to the welcome message. I thought all of >you might have suggestions for his question. -Eric] Gee, I hope mine is not the Nth reply to this. > Well harn is a wonderful game. I only just recently got a hold of the >main rule book. Is there only the 1986 edition or is there a more recent one? Only the magic rules have been updated. Get Tome of the Shek-Pvar (1991?) and any of the individual spell books that seem appropriate to your PCs. TSP really cleans things up and the only complaint I've heard about the spell books is that the Jmorvi convocation has been weakened too much. If HarnPlayer comes out, you'll likely want to get it so that your players can read up on background without also seeing info only the GM needs. However, no recent word on when this supplement will be published. >And which supplements and/or modules would you recommend to somebody new to >Harnmaster? I already have the Lythia, Gods of harn, Melderyn and Tharda >modules (they were what made me interested in harn). When this question has been asked before, it seems that the general answer is to get Kaldor and two of the adventure modules (Staff of Fanon and 100 Bushels of Rye). This because Kaldor is a large kingdom, structured along familiar lines to anyone who's read a fantasy or medieval history book. The two adventures start in Kaldoran villages, but as noted in their introductions, they can be moved anywhere as the villages are generic. But given that you already have some modules, you may want to stick with Melderyn, as it's a kingdom with lots of room for adventure (I have to admit that Tharda has never excited me much). Varied topography, lots of mages, etc. Unlike the Harnic kingdoms, the politics seem pretty stable, but if you want to deal in the rarified atmosphere of royalty, you can always create a secret cabal of Agrikans plotting to overthrow the Council of 11. To supplement it, again look into the two adventure modules I've mentioned. You may want to also get the Pilot's Almanac, as Melderyn is a coastal/ island kingdom and it's likely that your PCs will have to hop the occasional ship to get place to place. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: 2806rsilv@umbsky.cc.umb.edu Subject: Gaming Directory The National Gaming & Science Fiction Sourcebook Wants You! The National Gaming and Science Fiction Sourcebook is a project that will bring together gaming and fan orgainzations from across North America. We plan to include clubs, retail and mail-order businesses, publications and fanzines, play-by-mail games, and online services geared toward thousands of gaming and/or sci-fi enthusiasts like yourself. What organizations can be included? Any that want to! In fact, the more the better. No group is too large, too small, or too specialized. We are interested in listing organizations devoted to tabletop wargames and traditional board and card games as well as roleplaying and live-action roleplaying organizationa. We welcome a wide range of fan organizations as well. If you've got a message that you think our audience would appreciate, then you can get a listing. This is free advertising, plain and simple. A basic listing in the sourcebook is free. Simply fill out the form below and return it by email to: 2806rsilv@umbsky.cc.umb.edu Or send a hard copy to: Unconventional Graphics 841 Worcester Rd Suite 207 Natick MA 01760 We plan to publish the Sourcebook in early 1994 and it will then be sold at conventions and possibly by mail order. In the meantime, though, we need your participation to make this work. The Sourcebook will only be as good as the response we get, so be sure to list your group and pass the form along to anyone else who might be interested. In addition to our standard free listings, we also sell larger ads up to a full page. Please let us know if you'd like more information on this option. Below, you will find out survey form. Organizations are divided into six categories (Club, Retail, Publication, Manufacturer, Online, and Play-By-Mail). You may list your group in more than one, if several apply. After the basic information, there is space for you to describe your group. Please use this space to give whatever information you would like our readers to have about your organization and its activities, products, or services. We welcome any comments and suggestions you might have about the survey form or the Sourcebook itself. Remember, it is your response that will make this project a success. We eagerly await your response. Sincerely, Rick Silva Associate Editor Survey Form Organization Name: Organization Address: Contact Names: Phone Number(s): EMail Address(es): Please Fill Out Each of the Following Sections That Apply To Your Organization (Your listing will appear under these categories): [] Club Meeting Times: Meeting Locations: Affiliation/Sanctioning (if any): Publication (if any): (fill out publication section) [] Retail/Dealer Walk in service? If so, Hours? Mail Order? If So, Instructions for obtaining catalogue? Convention Appearances? [] Publication Name of Publication? Type (book, fanzine, APA, newsletter, magazine, etc)? Frequency Per Year? Cost (sample issue)? Cost (subscription)? [] Manufacturer Type of Products? Instructions For Obtaining Catalogue? [] Online Type of Service (MUD, BBS, Database, Mailing List, etc)? Modem #? Electronic Address? [] Play-By-Mail Name? Set Up Cost (and number of free turns with set up)? Turn Cost? Turnaround Time? Number of Players per Session? Now give a brief description of your organization (200 words or less): Thank you for your response. From: Harry Butler Subject: A Couple Jmorvi Spells Here are a couple Jmorvi spells which my Shek-Pvar, Doran, has come up with: THE GOLDEN RUNE Convocation: Jmorvi CL: I Enchants an elemental object to serve as a surface for drawing or writing (the caster can engrave with his hands). The Golden Rune may be used to leave messages. The caster is able to write for about ML seconds (MS) or ML x 3 seconds (CS). A miniature chisel is required as a seed, which is used to engrave the message. Bonus Effects: ML 71+ -- No seed required. ML 81+ -- The engraving may be hidden below the surface, visible only to Jmorvi Shek-Pvar and those who know this spell. ML 86+ -- The subsurface engraving may be made legible only under certain caster-designated conditions. ML 91+ -- The subsurface engraving may be hidden from all but those designated by the caster. Fatigue: (15-SI) x 1 Time to Cast: 15-SI seconds Range: Touch Duratiion: MS: ML days; CS: Indefinite DORAN'S SKELETON KEY Convocation: Jmorvi CL: III This spell enables the caster to open ordinary (i.e., non-magical) mechanical locks whose complexity does not exceed the caster's SI without damaging the locks themselves. It requires use of a small key as a seed, which is inserted into the lock to be opened. Bonus Effects: ML 71+ -- The seed is no longer needed; the caster merely needs to touch the lock. Fatigue: (15-SI) x 1.5 Time to Cast: 30-SI seconds Range: Touch Duration: Instantaneous I have one question too-- do any of you allow the same spell to have varying fatigue costs and/or levels depending on the version, or are all Sight of Eneldir spells, for example, the same? I'm toying with the idea of multiple versions, some of which might be easier to cast than others. Harry Butler hgb1@troi.cc.rochester.edu From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: Welcome >From: John Lambert >Subject: Re: Welcome > > Well harn is a wonderful game. I only just recently got a hold of the >main rule book. Is there only the 1986 edition or is there a more recent one? >And which supplements and/or modules would you recommend to somebody new to >Harnmaster? I already have the Lythia, Gods of harn, Melderyn and Tharda >modules (they were what made me interested in harn). There is a second edition HarnMaster out there, and it does have some differences from the 1st edition, but nothing earth shaking. The biggest change, of course, has been the magic system which now has several products devoted to it including the full-size Shek Pvar volume. Sounds like you have a pretty good selection of background material. Kaldor was the first and best developed part of Harn, and thus is IMHO the richest in detail, although other areas are just as interesting. Get the rule book if it interests you (and the magic volumes if you want; I quite like the HM magic system), and maybe one of the adventure modules since you don't have any of them. Curse of Hlen is the newest; before that there was Araka Kalai, 100 Bushels of Rye, Kiraz (sorta), among others possibly. Get a copy of their product listing and then don't believe any of the promised availability dates. Take the publication of each new product as mana from heaven (completely in the biblical sense). ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge sucessfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you. -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four From: tls@mips22.cdev.com (Todd Stevens) Subject: General Questions ... Greetings all ... I have some general "harnic" questions ... When the group I role-play with started using harn rules, it was very unclear as to when "learning rolls" should be made. Has this issue ever been addressed here? Also, I am curious what approaches other GM's have adopted. Another question I have is related to spells (and perhaps normal effects as well) that have an "area-of-effect". For example, a fireball (I forgot the harnic name) is cast at a player, is there a impact role for every body location? or is it limited to one area? or is it somehow averaged over the whole body? Thanx ... Todd Stevens (Todd.A.Stevens@cdev.com) From: Sean Matheis Subject: Re: General Questions ... > From: tls@mips22.cdev.com (Todd Stevens) > Subject: General Questions ... > > > Greetings all ... Salve > > I have some general "harnic" questions ... > > Another question I have is related to spells (and perhaps normal effects > as well) that have an "area-of-effect". > > For example, a fireball (I forgot the harnic name) is cast at a player, > is there a impact role for every body location? or is it limited to one > area? or is it somehow averaged over the whole body? Ah, the wonderful Orb of Zatara (sp?). It's been too long since I got to cast that one :0 Well, unfortunately (for the victims) you apply the "damage" to EACH body facing that exposed to the blast (or at least that's how our GM did it). Try not to get hit by it if you can - ruins the complexion :) > > Thanx ... > > Todd Stevens (Todd.A.Stevens@cdev.com) > > Sean samatheis@ucdavis.edu From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: General Questions ... tls@mips22.cdev.com (Todd Stevens) asks: >When the group I role-play with started using harn rules, it was very >unclear as to when "learning rolls" should be made. Has this issue >ever been addressed here? Also, I am curious what approaches other GM's >have adopted. Spells and skills-used-in-stressful-situations should be checked soon after use; e.g., combat skills should be checked when the fight is over. Other skills I usually had my players check once per month, sort of a midnight-on-the-30th ritual. The rules give examples for when to award a devo roll for someone who's been studying, etc., and if the player *really* wanted the devo roll, I suppose you could award it after an appropriate period of time. However, I got my players used to keeping track of all their study hours during the month and checking on the 30th. They seemed happy. On the other hand, I never did come up with a good rule on awarding psionic devo rolls, particularly when they were not used in stressful situations. For example, when somebody uses Sensitivity to scan for magic, he's typically under no stress, but he doesn't use it long enough for the time to add up to anything appreciable at the end of the month. I'd allow the player to use this as one of his three free monthly devo rolls (which I limited to skills that were used sometime during the month), but I did have complaints about this being too restrictive. >Another question I have is related to spells (and perhaps normal effects >as well) that have an "area-of-effect". > >For example, a fireball (I forgot the harnic name) is cast at a player, >is there a impact role for every body location? or is it limited to one >area? or is it somehow averaged over the whole body? You should check *each* body location within the AoE. I don't have it available at the moment, but an example of this was given in the explosion rules which were once available on HarnLine. I believe a single impact roll was made for a sample explosion, and then each appropriate body location was checked (some bodyparts were not checked due to facing, etc.). As you would expect, this gets very complex, messy and damaging. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: lees@snoopy.asf.com (Lee Short) Subject: more spells Here's another Peleahn spell I dredged up, Lee MURAZOR'S VISION (Peleahn/VI) Fatigue: (15-SI) * 3.5 Time: (15-SI) minutes Range: self Duration: SI*2 minutes (SI*4 minutes with CS) This spell changes the caster's visual perception. Under the effects of the spell, the caster perceives only infrared radiation, and he loses all ability to perceive detail. The caster can perceive the approximate temperature of the heat source and its approximate size. He may only perceive temperature differences of 10% or more (on an absolute scale). With the basic spell, the caster may not differentiate between a single large heat source and multiple smaller heat sources of the same temperature. The range of the caster's vision is extended greatly, and is not impaired by fog. It is limited by line of sight. The chart below shows the perceptual ability of the caster when under the effects of this spell: Range fire living matter to ML yards candle dog to 50*ML yards cooking fire person to SI miles campfire horse, or 4-5 people to ML/3 miles bonfire 4-5 horses BONUS EFFECTS ML 71+ The caster can now discern between multiple small heat sources and a single large source by concentrating for 15-SI seconds. ML 86+ The caster can switch between normal vision and his enchanted vision. This requires concentration for (15-SI) * 2 seconds. From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Another Savorya spell I must be in a bad mood or something: Savorya V Calspeth's Hammer An enchantment which causes a single victim touched by the caster to experience the sensations which he would feel if the touched portion of his body had been struck a blow by a great hammer. In short, that body location effectively takes 4d6 (MS) or 5d6 (CS) blunt impact. All associated injury rolls, including the kill roll, should be made as for a normal Warhammer strike, but effects such as bruising, bleeding, etc., do not follow since the "damage" is all mental. All effects, of course, fade when Duration expires, and no healing is required except to control shock, if necessary. Special Bonus: A caster with the psionic talent Mental Bolt adds his SI to Hammer EML. Bonus Effects ML71+ Touch no longer required, and caster may specify. Range is ML feet. ML91+ Caster may specify more than one person within range to feel the effects of Calspeth's Hammer. However, the apparent impact is reduced by 1d6 for each additional person. Fatigue: (15-SI)x3 Time: (15-SI)x2 seconds Range: Basic, touch ML71+, ML feet Duration: MS, SIx10 seconds CS, SIx30 seconds I debated dropping this to CL IV, but left it at V due to the lack of any saving throw and the area effect at ML91. Any comments of course appreciated. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Yet another Savorya spell Here's a peaceful spell useful for detecting processes. :-) Savorya I Calspeth's Finger A spell which allows the caster to measure the consciousness level of a single person touched during casting. With CS, the caster also receives a general idea, stateable in no more than five words, of what the subject is thinking or dreaming. Special Bonus: A caster with the psionic talent Psychometry adds his SI to Finger EML. Bonus Effects ML61+ Touch no longer required. Range is SI yards. ML91+ Caster may examine up to SI subjects within range. Fatigue: 15-SI Time: 15-SI seconds Range: Basic, touch ML61+, SI yards Duration: Instantaneous -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: more spells Mark Hazen writes: This is more of a general response on the matter of designing spells. There is a bit of a problem in my mind about how to assign levels to spells. ... There should be some sort of consistancy in power/difficulty accross convocations (especially since spell level is really an administrative device for dm's that may not be reflected in the player character's view point, that is Fenton the Peleahn mage does not say to himself "I think that I will create a third level spell to do this", he says "I think that if I creat a vessel of such and such characteristics and fill it with power and ethereal fire it will have the right effect". So has anyone else out there thought much about this (eg. Klaus??) I have tried to use examples from the books to set power level but have had a hard time reconsiling apparant power levels and effects between spells even within the same convocation. Note that I am not talking about the difference between a Peleahn trying to heal someone and a Fyvrian doing the same. but within a convocation at what level does power increase allow area effects - or independent movement of the spell effects etc. Another example, if a low level Lyavian spell can light up an area, then a low level Odivshe spell should be able to darken by the same amount. I do not agree. The way I play magic, going with nature is easier than going against it. A light source that illuminates something is a common ocurrance, a darkness source that darkens an area is highly unnatural. If I may mention That Other Game (TM), I have always let a darkness spell permanently cancel a continual light. Restoring the order of nature should be easier than changing it. Note that I am talking about a continuos unnatural effect, not the natural consequenses of disturbing the order of nature. The amount a certain level spell can heat up for a Peleahn should be matched by an equivalent level spell by an odvishe spell to cool it down. I am very much in doubt. It is of course very much easier to produce heat than cold by natural means. That does not mean that it should also be so by magical means. Note that unlike heat, cold has a limit. It should get more difficult to cool things as you aproach absolute zero, while it should generally not get more difficult to heat things as they get warmer. The difference between 300K and 0K is NOT the same as the difference between 1000k and 1300K. If a certain level Fyvrian spell can twist wood then an equivalent level Jmorvian spell should be able to twist metal. Yes, at least in the world of Harn. In other fantasy worlds, it is common to have iron resistant to magic. On the other hand, life may be resistant to magic. See below. The alternative is to say that certain convocations are more difficult to master and effect. If this is so my guess is that Peleahn is the least difficult to master at low levels and perhaps Fyvrian or Savoryan the most difficult. Comments? Game balance rears its ugly head. Fyvrians can do so many interesting things. Peleahn sorcerors can do only very limited things, most of it so very obvious. One of the things they do really well is causing damage. If Fyvrians are just as good at causing damage, who would want to be a Peleahn shek pvar? "Realisticly", automatic death ought to be Fyvrian I. Life depends on so many systems functioning that it should be ridiculously easy to stop, considering all the other stuff that Fyvrians can do. To avoid this, you might postulate a "life force" that resists that kind of thing. Similarly, a spell to raise the temperature of an object by 7K should be very simple for a Peleahn shek pvar. This is instant certain death, so you have to exclude living creatures from the effect. Some days ago, someone (sorry, I don't remember who) claimed that the level of a spell should not depend on usefulness, but only on the energy needed. I do agree that usefulness should idealy not be considered. I do not agree that level is a meassure of energy required. The levels are complexity levels, and should reflect the complexity of the manipulation. Of course handling large amounts of energy is more difficult, and should also increase the complexity level. I have a very concrete question about spell levels. How do you calculate the level of a spell that is like another, only with different parameters? A few examples: 1) Automatic critical. I need a certain effect. I know (of) a certain spell that will produce the desired effect on a CS. I want to develop a spell that has this effect on MS. Level? 2) Increased duration. 3) Shorter casting time. This may be imposible. Can you do something in a more complex but faster way? 4) Decreased fatigue cost. This seems imposible by the rules, but should logically be posible. 5) Increasing casting time to decrease complexity level. 6) Instant bonus effect. That is, I desperately need this effect. I know (of) a spell that produces this effect as an ML81+ bonus effect. What level would the spell I am trying to develop have? This one is probably very hard to give a general answer to. Depending on the original spell, the new one might even have a lower level. Klaus O K From: Mark Hazen Subject: RE: A Couple Jmorvi Spells >I have one question too-- do any of you allow the same spell to have >varying fatigue costs and/or levels depending on the version, or are >all Sight of Eneldir spells, for example, the same? I'm toying with >the idea of multiple versions, some of which might be easier to cast >than others. > >Harry Butler First what do you mean by the same spell but different versions? I think that there are probably different ways to produce the same effect that would have different fatigue. One can easily see a young inexperienced mage producing a spell that produces a certain effect but does it in a way that is non-optimal and so takes longer or has a higher fatigue rating. As I have posted before I personally am getting turned off on the level designation since it is really only a device for DM's to categorize spells while trying to determine what the fatigue levels and Esoteric Knowledge of a spell are. The idea of higher than normal (or lower) fatigue ratings would be a great idea for spell research rolls that are say marginal successes etc. As well it is my contention that level should be indicative of the scope of the effects and be consistant accross convocations. That is a small area fire effect for a Peleahn should be the same level as a small area spirit effect for a Savoryan. However, I have to say that in the spirit of personally developed spells any difference from the well known would then be say "Fenton's Sight of Eneldir spell". It has been personallized. If the mage is learning from a tract of some sort it could be neat to add in an understanding factor to simulate their ability to develop the right type of vessel to fill with power, but if it is different then they have a new spell (well ok it sounds like a new version doesn't it) eg. if their understanding is low then there is an increased chance that they will develop a different version of the spell, which may have increased or decreased fatigue levels associated. This is a good idea, (different versions with varying fatigue levels) I wish I had thought of it. However, I am having a hard enough time integrating harnic fatigue and effects into my HarnQuest rules that I will not probably implement this for the time being. Currently it is more Dm discretion where I tell the mage that they are getting very tired and if they push it they generally shortly thereafter fall over asleep. Crude but it has been remarkably well received. Mark Hazen Who says it is cold in Canada, it was 8 degrees Celcius this morning the 14 of December, I may yet be converted to believing in the Green house effect. From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: General Questions ... > > From: tls@mips22.cdev.com (Todd Stevens) > Subject: General Questions ... > > > Greetings all ... > > I have some general "harnic" questions ... > > When the group I role-play with started using harn rules, it was very > unclear as to when "learning rolls" should be made. Has this issue > ever been addressed here? Also, I am curious what approaches other GM's > have adopted. We roll them usually after each session or if the adventure is badly underway, after the adverture. Some rolls (like spells) could be rolled then and there, but I'd use discretion in those cases. > Another question I have is related to spells (and perhaps normal effects > as well) that have an "area-of-effect". > > For example, a fireball (I forgot the harnic name) is cast at a player, > is there a impact role for every body location? or is it limited to one > area? or is it somehow averaged over the whole body? I'm not sure I've read this somewhere, but at least in the case of Orb of Zatara (the fireball) the damage should be applied to all reasonably uncovered surfases (face, hands, or if covered with only cloth, and so on). This truly means that the Orb (and most area spells) is a very dangerous spell (don't missfire). The reason for not applying the damage to covered body parts is that the duration of the flames is so short that armor of any kind protects well enough (though they might catch fire). > > Todd Stevens (Todd.A.Stevens@cdev.com) > Jours, Petri From: Petri Heiramo Subject: Re: more spells > > From: lees@snoopy.asf.com (Lee Short) > Subject: more spells I don't usually reply these spell posts (I've been reading them with interest though. Are the spell tomes for different convocations worth buying?), but this time I have to comment something. > Here's another Peleahn spell I dredged up, > > Lee > > > > MURAZOR'S VISION (Peleahn/VI) > > Fatigue: (15-SI) * 3.5 Seems VERY heavy to me. I would take it down to (15-SI). The spell is far from that exhausting. After all, all it does is adjusts your vision (Hmmm... sounds fyvrian to me ;) so it might not be that easy after all. Maybe there was an easier way of doing it. Like feeling the heat around? That would be peleahn.). > Time: (15-SI) minutes > Range: self > Duration: SI*2 minutes (SI*4 minutes with CS) > > This spell changes the caster's visual perception. Under the > effects of the spell, the caster perceives only infrared radiation, > and he loses all ability to perceive detail. The caster can perceive > the approximate temperature of the heat source and its approximate > size. He may only perceive temperature differences of 10% or more (on > an absolute scale). 10% on an absolute scale? Meaning Kelvin? That would mean that the caster would see everything between +5C and +35C (approx.) as same temperature. I mean think about it. Anyway, I believe there is some mistake here. It would be reason- able to have him see differences of 2 to 5 C (4 to 9 F) minimum. > With the basic spell, the caster may not > differentiate between a single large heat source and multiple smaller > heat sources of the same temperature. > The range of the caster's vision is extended greatly, and is not > impaired by fog. It is limited by line of sight. Does fog (=water) restrict the passage of IR-light? I'm not sure but it would sound reasonable it does since it (water) absorbs quite a lot of energy. Anyway I can't think it over now (no time, can't concent- rate, got DOOM at home, etc.), but it doesn't sound right. Anyone else any insights? > The chart below shows the perceptual ability of the caster when > under the effects of this spell: > > Range fire living matter > > to ML yards candle dog > to 50*ML yards cooking fire person > to SI miles campfire horse, or 4-5 people > to ML/3 miles bonfire 4-5 horses One can see normal light, even dim, quite well from distance so I would apply the same here, especially since nothing blocks the line of sight. > BONUS EFFECTS > > ML 71+ The caster can now discern between multiple small heat > sources and a single large source by concentrating for > 15-SI seconds. > ML 86+ The caster can switch between normal vision and his > enchanted vision. This requires concentration for > (15-SI) * 2 seconds. I would let the caster give the ability to others at some point. Jours, Petri From: Axel Schudak Subject: Curse of Hlen (Developing CoNV) Hi, yesterday my player group reached the City of Nascent Visions. As many here have already noticed, this part of Panage III is underdeveloped. Since CG will not further devolpe this site (so they say), I estimate that we could do it. The proceedings of this development could be stuffed on sunbane and be made available to all who need this city. To do this, there must be a coordinator who takes this city and cuts it into handy parts. These would be handed out to any of us Harnians who wants to develope part of this environment (I myself would opt for the Laranian Siege army). The coordinator must check for any inconsistencies and crossreferences between different developments. If any of the more involved Harnians will make the coordinator, he should post it and start (I would like to do it but lack the time). Axel For all who are interested in it : Seven Trials of Varaxis My Player group of seven players tried the seven trials. They managed the first five trials without a single loss: In the first trial they actively searched for a invisible bridge. In the trial of fire one player missed his WILL roll, but none of them ever considered taking another route or leaving one of their group back, so they returned and forced him to come with them). The fighter of the group, a real knight (998 on parent occupation) hold the golem back while the rest could escape. Then they wisely avoided leaving the path. In the trial of water two of them nearly drowned (rolling two consecutive CFs), but eventually all survived. When they reached the first door of trial six, I handed out the (randomly drawn) verse of metal ond iron and they all perished. Actually one touched the key and said "Panaga", and the rest of the group followed him (lemmings IV, aargh). They didn't even notice that this was wrong until Varax told them. Now they must find another way to get those keys. A Now they must find another key, Varax won't hand out his. From: Mark Hazen Subject: RE: Curse of Hlen (Developing CoNV) Great Idea and I would be willing to take a section but not the coordinator job. How did you rationalize Varaxis even having a key to the boxes? Is this just part of being a Savoryan Demi-God? The module says that he barely noticed Panaga passing and will not know why the group is there, why then does he have the key. And since all died how did they get to continue??? Varaxis only gives a success to groups where at least one makes it? (I know it is pretty bad karma to kill the entire group even when they are stupid) I assume that Varaxis must have looked the boxes over and realized that there was something more going on and so saved them. Would this then mean that if they came back that they would have to undergo the trial again??? Cheers my group is about to go to Varaxis after having killed Radin last week. That is if they survive clan justice since they also killed some members of the ruling clan and Kyman's resurrected wife!!! Mark Hazen (it is still raining in this part of Canada - is it really December???) From: phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Paul Lehman) Subject: Re: A Couple Jmorvi Spells >I have one question too-- do any of you allow the same spell to have >varying fatigue costs and/or levels depending on the version, or are >all Sight of Eneldir spells, for example, the same? I'm toying with >the idea of multiple versions, some of which might be easier to cast >than others. Yes, I do. This seems a natural part of spell casting and magic in general. I have toyed with systems that have no spell levels, just basic parameters for magical power (expressed on TOO many scales to be practical). In the end levels seemed a much better solution since it made play smoother and quicker. However, I am not quite sure how to be systematic about changing spell levels. Perhaps something like 2x effects = 2x level, etc. or perhaps something like each bonus effect that becomes part of the basic spell = another spell level (other bonus effects would decrease in necessary ML in a corresponding manner). This whole scheme could also work in reverse (within limits) so that lower level versions of powerful spells could be tried. This, of course, seems to me what magic is all about. Lower level effects/spells prepare one for higher level stuff regardless of how specific and similar the spell is. ---------- phlehman@bongo.cc.utexas.edu "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -- Pablo Picasso From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: General Questions ... pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) writes: On the other hand, I never did come up with a good rule on awarding psionic devo rolls, particularly when they were not used in stressful situations. For example, when somebody uses Sensitivity to scan for magic, he's typically under no stress, but he doesn't use it long enough for the time to add up to anything appreciable at the end of the month. I'd allow the player to use this as one of his three free monthly devo rolls (which I limited to skills that were used sometime during the month), but I did have complaints about this being too restrictive. Sorry to be nitpicking, but that is not what the rules say. The 3 free rolls are not restricted to skills actually used (for something useful) during the month. They represent practising. It is a rule meant to keep down bookkeeping. Instead of having players specify what they practise and keep a ledger of hours spend, the rules simply assume that a PC will spend an average of one hour a day practising, and gives 3 rolls per month for that. The rolls are restricted to skills that could reasonably have been practised. No swimming rolls in the dessert, no archery rolls if you have no bow, not much of anything (except psionics!) if you are in prison. Psi skills can be trained by meditation. Klaus O K From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: Re: more spells Petri Heiramo writes: Subject: Re: more spells > > From: lees@snoopy.asf.com (Lee Short) > Subject: more spells > MURAZOR'S VISION (Peleahn/VI) > > Fatigue: (15-SI) * 3.5 Seems VERY heavy to me. I would take it down to (15-SI). The spell is far from that exhausting. Right. Unfortunately the new magic rules couples fatigue closely with complexity. I don't like that that at all. Something can be very difficult to learn without being exhausting to do. After all, all it does is adjusts your vision (Hmmm... sounds fyvrian to me ;) so it might not be that easy after all. Maybe there was an easier way of doing it. Like feeling the heat around? That would be peleahn.). Smiley noted. However, I don't think you are right here. Is there any animal with eyes similar to ours which sees infrared light? I am not talking about waves slightly longer than those we see, but real infravision, allowing detection of heat sources in the dark. If not (and I think not), I guess that it is not possible to modify the eyes in such a way. Even if it is possible, it would be a major alteration, like growing scales to serve as armour. The shek pvar would also need to know that there is a kind of "light" emitted by hot objects. A Fyvrian would not know that IMHO. Would a Lyahvi shek pvar know? They certainly do know that there is a continuum from violet to red, but do they know that there is light "redder than red"? If so, how "red" would you allow them to get? Receive Radio Communication, Lyahvi II ? Detect heat is of course well within the sphere of a Peleahn sorcerer, compare with Eye of Ultramarine. If you want more than a simple detect heat, it will be easier for a Savoryan, senses being Savoryan. The Savoryan shek pvar PC Narelda, played by Torben Mogensen, made such a spell in my campaign, and used it to good effect. > Time: (15-SI) minutes > Range: self > Duration: SI*2 minutes (SI*4 minutes with CS) > > This spell changes the caster's visual perception. Under the > effects of the spell, the caster perceives only infrared radiation, > and he loses all ability to perceive detail. This does seem to be an eye alteration, rather than a detect type spell. Why not let the caster see normally as well? A agree that this spell, giving much more detail than Eye of Utramarine, should be of higher level, but at level VI you should be able to see fairly detailed in the IR while maintaining your normal vision. BTW I think that it is wrong to use modern, technical terms like "infrared" in a fantasy game. Take a look at the description of Dekejis in the intro to Gods of Harn. > The range of the caster's vision is extended greatly, and is not > impaired by fog. It is limited by line of sight. Does fog (=water) restrict the passage of IR-light? I'm not sure but it would sound reasonable it does since it (water) absorbs quite a lot of energy. I don't know either, but water being the nemesis of Peleahn, this would make sense. Then again, does fire block Eye of Ultramarine? I would let the caster give the ability to others at some point. So would I. Klaus O K From: Axel Schudak Subject: RE: Playing Varaxis > From: Mark Hazen > Subject: RE: Curse of Hlen (Developing CoNV) > > How did you rationalize Varaxis even having a key to the boxes? Is I judged that Varaxis holds several powers that are only given to demi-gods. With one of these powers he determined what the group needed most for their quest. (Part mind-reading, part divination). Varaxis is able to produce these keys from midair (kind of savoryan- jmorvi magic) and offers them to the group if they are willing to untertake the seven trials. > The module says that he > barely noticed Panaga passing and will not know why the group is > there, why then does he have the key. To make it consistent I had to change the module. He learned all he knows about the quest from the minds of the group, Panaga has managed to escape his attention (guess why). > Varaxis only gives a success to groups where at > least one makes it? (I know it is pretty bad karma to kill the entire > group even when they are stupid) Since this is only a trial within the mind of Varax, I judged that the group would not die even if all fail. But disappointing Varax was bad luck indeed. Now they must find the real keys (where ?) or try to persuade Varax to give them his. Since he is back in his palace, he won't even listen. If they come again another day, they might be given a secondary quest by him (Something like : I ever wondered what the Kameki liked for breakfast. Persuade one to join me for a while. And when you pass the place, please bring me the Scroll of indomitable Doom from this monastry in Kanday). > Cheers my group is about to go to Varaxis after having killed Radin > last week. Exactly what my group was doing, too. But they managed to kill him without anybody noticing it (I have a real good assassin in my group). By behaving stupid they got imprisoned nonetheless and one of them even managed to get killed (actually by the Lhyavi mage in the group who made a real bad critical Beam). Axel From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: Re: General Questions ... I wrote: > I'd allow the player to use this as one of his three free > monthly devo rolls (which I limited to skills that were used sometime > during the month) Klaus wrote: >Sorry to be nitpicking, but that is not what the rules say. The 3 free >rolls are not restricted to skills actually used (for something useful) >during the month. They represent practising. It is a rule meant to keep >down bookkeeping. For some reason, the players in my campaign usually told me during the month things like "I'll practice my Prestidigitation skill tonight," and I would include Prestidigitation as one of the skills he could use one of the 3 rolls on at the end of the month. However, it was generally pretty informal. I didn't require that the player make a note that Prestidigitation had been practiced and didn't demand that he okay each of the three choices with me. I'd usually take a look at the character sheets afterwards when I was bookkeeping to see what they had increased, but that was about it for my cracking the whip. But thanks for pointing out the use of meditation to raise psionic ability. rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637 From: Mark Hazen Subject: RE: Playing Varaxis Glad to hear that another DM has decided to change the module to make it more consistant! Perhaps we should gather our ideas into a file that could be put on the archive as a resource for other DMs using the Panaga series. As an example from previous modules I decided that in the staff of Fanons citidel there should be some rooms that Panaga used as his personal rooms. Of course at the time we did not know his nature so the ones I made cater to a human - bedroom etc but perhaps Panaga would still use them as such. I would be willing to try to keep track of suggestions and put them in a file. Note this is aside from City of Nascent Visions development. >To make it consistent I had to change the module. He learned all he >knows about the quest from the minds of the group, Panaga has managed >to escape his attention (guess why). Does this mean that in your module Panaga did not undergo the trials? My thought on this is that Varaxis rather than forcing everyone to undergo the trials only forces those that are sent by SaveKnor for conflict resolution. Then if the group or person fails, whoever was the opponent wins. Since, your group were not on trial but attempting to obtain the key. Their failure merely results in not getting the key. >Since this is only a trial within the mind of Varax, I judged that >the group would not die even if all fail. But disappointing Varax was >bad luck indeed. Now they must find the real keys (where ?) or try >to persuade Varax to give them his. Since he is back in his palace, >he won't even listen. If they come again another day, they might >be given a secondary quest by him (Something like : I ever wondered Yep, this makes much more sense to me then the forcing of the trials, the group even has the choise of not going through them and finding someother way of getting the key. Now the boxes holding the demon parts in my campaign were manufactured by Panaga (and hence reek of evil) but why can they only be opened within a certain distance of Ikaras plus require a key? Which brings up another question, how does one remove the eyes etc of a powerful being in the first place? Now my guess is that there is a magical process which involves creating a suitable container which is used to remove them in the first place. Part of the process involves linking the container to the diriki such that the parts are protected from harm. (in this case cannot be opened unless in the vicinity of Ikaras). As a secondary precaution Panaga included locks on the boxes. It is also my guess that only someone who has had the parts and the diriki together can atune to them and therefore command the diriki to use his magical powers (mundane orders like walk over there or eat are excluded). Thus the locks keep one of Panaga's underlings from obtaining the boxes and stealing control of Ikaras from Panaga. One would expect the key to be kept on Panaga's person or hidden extremely well, where Panaga's lieutenents would not be able to find it. (this would seem to count out the City of Nacsent Visions but not for example the Tol since it is on the other side of the Laranic army and difficult to get to by a follower of Agrik. Which brings up another problem that I am working on. How does Panaga obtain access to the Tol through the Laranic army? Surely, he cannot just disguise himself and wander through! Does this mean that there are sleepers within the Laranic army that will pass him. A question that I have not yet decided on the answer to. Back to the boxes, it is also my guess that a Diriki would recognize the set up to remove his parts and thus the trick Panaga played was to trick Ikaras into a position close enough to the boxes that Panaga could activate the removal spell. Then will Diriki in tCoNV recognize the boxes and either avoid the players or attack them if the boxes are not kept hidden. Or will a Diriki only recognize a container built to capture their own parts - ie it has to be pre-attuned to one specific Diriki. Onto other matters, I have included an artifact in Hlen (hidden in the Lords bedroom) that is the lythian end of the power conduit from Varaxis. The artifact loses its broadcast capability if removed from the area corresponding to the sphere in VARAX. This does not remove the compulsion from those already affected although they can now be successfully dispelled, one at a time. But no new people will succumb. If the artifact is removed before Mara is killed, then the spirit loses contact with Mara's spirit and rapidly weakens. The sphere in Varax will continue to obtain power from the spirits and start to expand (keep in mind that expansion will be slow, 1/r^2 in power). This is bound to get Varaxis' attention, and if the sphere grows to much it may find the artifact in Hlen if it has not been destroyed. Enough for now back to work Mark Hazen From: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov (R.B. Schmunk) Subject: New Odivshe spell Haven't seen any Odivshe spells posted here lately, so here goes. Some ideas taken from Figure of Aumos. Odivshe V Judral's Form A self-enchantment which causes the caster to become a cohesive body of water. With the basic spell, he may not move and any possessions on his body (i.e., clothes) are not similarly enchanted. Any piercing wound suffered during Duration causes bodily cohesion to fail unless he tests successfully against Will x 5, with a penalty of 3 x the Injury Points suffered. If the caster fails this test, or if at any point during Duration he voluntarily lets cohesion collapse, he flows away unconscious as gravity takes him. If after Duration he is in a place unsuitable for recorporation (GM discretion), he further transforms to ethereal water and flows to the nearest location under open sky and there returns to his mundane form. Although a piercing wound may cause cohesion of the caster's form to fail, any wound suffered during Duration does no real damage. While enchanted, the caster is water, and thus is virtually invisible if he is immersed within a larger body of water. Bonus Effects ML41+ Caster may move about normally, but movement faster than his base Mobility causes cohesion to fail unless he tests successfully vs. Will x 4. ML61+ Up to SI pounds of posessions on the caster's body may be enchanted with him. Any weapon so enchanted has only blunt Impact of 0 for Duration, and its use causes the cohesion to fail unless the caster successfully tests against Will x 2. ML81+ Enchantment may be placed on another willing person. Range is touch. Fatigue: (15-SI) x 3.5 Time: (15-SI) x 4 seconds Range: Basic, self ML81+, touch Duration: MS, ML minutes CS, SI hours Also, I've temporarily lost ftp access. When the new ftp software arrives at my office, I will immediately post the new spell file to the sunbane archive. If you would like it right away and you have a machine which can read a Binhexed Word for Mac file, send me e-mail (pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov). rbs -- R.B. Schmunk Email: pcrxs@nasagiss.giss.nasa.gov Smail: NASA/Goddard Institute, 2880 Broadway, New York, NY 10025 USA Vox: 212-678-5637