»PIC:barclip.ilbm» »BIG: »CL8: Interview With Crimson Jihad »PIC:barclip.ilbm» »SML: Written by Darkhawk »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: First, please introduce yourselves to our Amiga scene audience.. I think many of our readers might not be familiar with your group and your productions. Who are your members, what do you do, how did you get founded as a group, things like that.. »CL7:**** Lay: I started dealing with computers back in 1986, it was a C-64 computer by then. First it was gaming only - of course -, watching demos came next, and by then I was visiting parties as well. I still cry missing those old golden days. Most parties of today are all about 3D mayhem, except for a few decent ones. I had started on the Amiga in 1991 - it was an A500 at the time -, and it was also about that time we started with the development of our game "Newcomer" on the C-64. As time passed more and more Amigas ended up at my place, now I have 7 Amigas at home, and still N0 PEEcee. Our group - Crimson Jihad -, started in 1995. It started with the two of us, me as one of the founding members, of course, but the other guy is no member anymore /* Detox: He's a traitor! */. The idea came while watching the movie called True Lies, at the scene the arabian terrorist is introducing his views: »CL0:/* translator: sorry it is going to be a cross-translation, I am not going to look up the corresponding part in the original english script */ -"You [the USA] were bombing our cities at will, killing our women, our children, from your safe and distant homes, in a cowardly way! And you are the ones calling us 'terrorists'?? But now, the time has come, and the oppressed are taking a mighty sword to take revenge on their enemies..." And then, the FBI crooks are discussing him like: - "He has started his own faction, he calls it 'Crimson Jihad'." - "Why is that?" - "All the others were too soft for his tastes..." So the point is, we are also fighting an oppression - the PEEcee oppression -, and for the freedom of choice, as Information Technology (and for that matter, the whole world) is heading in an uncertain and very frightening direction. PEEcees in general, and windows in particular, crush all the other architectures - exactly the same as strong military powers crush lesser ones -, in this case out of pure marketing considerations. But we are no ppl blowing up public transport vehicles and the like - as a form of resistence and opposition, we are smashing up PEEcees and we produce PEEcee-slandering demos as our way of resistance. We do realize we cannot make the world change in this way, but at the very least we feel great doing it, and we make a high number of people contemplate what our motivation might be for all this, and the scandal we arouse most of the time is no small victory, either. »CL0:*** DeToX: I for myself am a CJ member since '96/97, after a long time of visiting quite a number of parties together with the CJ founding members, whose way of thinking and point of view was close to mine. They have discovered that I, too, can get real crude in their peculiar, intelligent sort of a way. That must have been the very reason - no guessing here! -, they have found me worthy of wreaking mischief along with them. Between '88 and '92 I was on the C-64, cracking games and coding cracktroes, but I was not involved with the scene in any direct way. I have bought an A500, and an A1.2K later, and started visiting parties (Symposium,Intel Outside,Scenest, etc.etc.). Unfortunately, I had not yet discovered any particular talent in myself for pixelling / composing music / coding, so I stuck with using MultiMedia authoring Sw! For example - designing and creating demos in Scala, and doing 3D stuff. :) ..So, as you might have already guessed on your own, my fab hobby is feeding the connoisseur mind with audio/visual effects of exquisite quality! :) »CL6:*** rATMAN: Well, I have became a full-fledged member of our group in '97, after proving my suitability at the Parad tourist-camp party in the same year - it was also the time of the first peecee mobo "arc welding", which sort of became a custom with us. During the year 2000, Lay imbued me with the full rank and all the powers of the expelled 2nd original founding member. By the way, I have dealt with computers since back in 1985. Back then, I was on the miraculous Hungarian computer called the 'Primo' (it was a miracle it worked at all, and its colour palette was ranging from 0=black to 1=white :D ). Then I started with coding on the C-64, followed by a certain intel-based binary abacus, »CL0: /* translator: guess what architecture he is referring to \;]> */ AND THEN!.. ..it was the year 1991, and visiting the "Csoki" »CL0: /* translator: a very famous Hungarian Culture Center hosting a multi-platform computer user group in the late eighties to the nineties */ I saw something called an "Amiga500", I gave it a try, I got hooked, and the next year I bought myself an A1.2K computer... My main responsibilities in our group are inventing the basic ideas for all the various "productions", being real crude in our peculiar, intelligent sort of a way, Pro PEEcee repair services (sledgehammer, cutting wheels, applying 220VAC directly to selected parts). I was also involved with organising the FyAnica party series for a few years. ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: And what about productions? Any words about your other releases? I must shamefacedly admit that I only know of the 'Crimson Jihad' wilddemo at MS2k1, and now your 'Ladenism'. Have you done other productions, and if so, what theme did they have? »CL7:*** Lay: Yes, we had other productions as well. We made an intro in 1995, but that one was still a very premature attempt at it. In 1997, at the AntiQ party we released our Scala script demo, called "Kurva Anyad"(MotherFucker), focusing on the topics of PEEcee-stomping/boozing. :) This production was still not quite a sophisticated one, it was just put-together at the partyplace, we only made it to the last before worst place in the Lamer Demo compo. Next year, also at the AntiQ party, we have released "PC Service" :) - also a Scala demo. We have made a serious work at designing this particular product, it had a fleshed-out story, had even a serious message! The placing we earned with this demo reflected well on all these - we have won 1st place in the Lamer Demo compo. »CL0:*** DeToX: Our 2nd Scala demo was probably the most successful as a result of the lot of spontanity involved in making it on the party - at last -, even in spite of all careful preliminary planning and design - Lay's HDD with all the pre-recorded sound samples was stolen! »CL7: /* Lay: If it were only that hard disk, but all my beer, too, was stolen! */ Our next production, a WILD video demo, was practically made by me entirely, as I wanted to break free of the bonds of lamer demo products! 8) The other members were providing me with scenes for my DV-cam, and with inspiration through their personalities and their deeds. :) The 1st video production was called "Burn PC Burn!", and it got 16th place at the MS2K Wild-compo. The central topic for this video product was Ex-TeR-mI-nAt-InG PEEcees with an own invention - hooking the mobo in line with a hi-consumption electric heater and sending through 220VAC to get it shorted out. The title of the product reflects on this innovative invention. :) For a few cut scenes I have even included footage from our 2nd lamer demo, and have also included a great number of party pictures. Unfortunately, this product haven't got through to a proper target group in the party audience. :) The next product in line was "J.I.H.A.D." at MS2K+1, and won 1st place there. Well, I was the most surprised of all about this result, but I was also real happy about it. But the next prod, "Ladenism", entered for MS2K+2, got disqualified! Well, I was not surprised at all about this one result!! :) »CL6:*** rATMAN: The lamer demo called "Kurva Anyad"(MotherFucker) was made in a very peculiar way. Lord had already composed some sort of music for it, but our ex-gfxian, Frankie, was real lazy at the time, so I approached Unreal for making some anims / pics for us. Unreal was a bit boggled on listening to our requirements - everything done in max. 8 colours, each anim-sequence should have a min. 2 and a max. of 5 anim frames - nevertheless he did all the requested stuff, and even in a very nice quality! pC sERVICE was made in real ultra-crude design - got me real surprised it even made it to the 1st place! :D (BTW., both of our Scala demos work on as low a config as a FastRAM equipped A500 !!! :DDD ). All the other products - the Wild video demos - are prising the talents of Detox. I for one were real surprised that "Ladenism" was ditched at MS2K+2, but that's the way it is. :D ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: You use the the real media a lot for your wilddemos, in particular you use violent imagery to get your points across. Could you take some time and explain your motives and thoughts behind this? What points do you want to get across with this? »CL0:*** DeToX: As I'm the one responsible for producing the Wild video demos, I will reflect on this one. 100% of the footages I use are real documentaries, or footage from various parties all taken by me. I simply pick the documentary materials from all sort of TV channels. Each and every single frame of those was aired on publicly available TV and was not faked or made-up by me - one just have to watch not only those trendy soap-operas but the news and discussions going on TV late night! :) I have left in ALL the TV channel logos in footage used in "Ladenism" on intent. Too bad we are living in a violent and cruel world, where day-to-day thousands die in all kinda bloody diseases and wars, not to forget about incidents and natural disasters. TV viewers are hooked on getting their daily dose of safe scare, and the commercial media is all-out to provide it. At the same time, the same media introduces those events to us in a way manipulating our understanding of those events! That is just why I prefer dropping in truly shocking cut scenes time to time, as that is the way to get people's attention! Every day of their life they spend watching / reading all the horror, and yet they don't make anything to stop all that from happening. They do their jobs like drones, consume their goods like 'decent' drones do, pay their taxes of which their government can uphold the actual state of propaganda and exploit. Too bad religion is no solution, either, as that, too, is just an easy-to-use tool for brainwashing the people. Just think of those fanatic suicidal muslim zealots - the taliban, Bin Laden or even the catholics vs. protestants in Ireland is no different thing, either. And I could just go on and on... No religion indoctrinates evil, but how far are those churches already from their founding doctrines and basic guidelines? ..perhaps I'm an atheist for the very same crap myself?!! :) I am no anarchist. I am no terrorist, either. And yet I could not stand this whole world order solely motivated by money and fuelled by its drone-ish class of consumers. I am not going to hit the streets and put up a fight with some stupid policeman - no sense in doing that. Perhaps that is why humanism is the one idea most close to my mindset. So, I am fighting against the darkness with those scandal-provoking videos as my way of resistance. :) Unfortunately there are lots of dumb ppl, who can't see the things that really matter, and so I am trying to make them realise this way. We are ALL living on a cheap-ass planet in a bloody star system that is only a speckle of dust of this galaxy - perhaps we would all do better learning how to live together, in peace and mutual support and prosperity, not abusing and exploiting and wreaking havoc on Nature. Why do we slander WINTEL 1st and foremost?? Well, that is the single industry that is a collecting ground of everything we hate and despise. Behind the mega-hype and power-PR of microsoft there are only pathetic and malicious economic interests. They keep on producing crappy Sw for fundamentally flakey Hw, for the misguided masses of "users". The world just -had- a Richest Man who keeps on hammering out binaries even though he has all the money he could turn to entire humanity's benefit - he's not going to turn to that.. That's why I have made a parallel between him and hitler in "J.I.H.A.D.". One more thing -- how the fuck could they display on a CPU "Designed for Windows" ?? Is it the Hw is made to accomodate a specific Sw or what? Of course, of course - it is all 'marketing sells' stuff. It is ALL about marketing, and that is NO good stuff! Humanity is an endangered species - if we keep going on the current way I don't see a promising future for us humans. :( ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: So, your name, Crimson Jihad is partly about your hate for the PC in general and Windows in particular, and in your prods, we see PC's getting smashed, and the offices of M$ getting bombed. But I guess you are also using PC's and maybe even Windows to produce your wilddemos? Isn't that hypocritical? »CL7:*** Lay: Yes we do use PEEcees. We use them as sacrifical victims the most. I am doing PHP + mySQL web-programming at work. Editing all the sources is done on the Amiga, using CED. Unfortunately, I need a PEEcee, too, for testing, as those web pages are going to be browsed by users using internet exploder most of the time - so I am stuck with testing my own work in exploder. That's the only good use I find for a PEEcee, nothing else. »CL0:*** DeToX: Too bad, my expectations are way past what the Amiga can offer, especially regarding real time non-linear DV editing. Since the Amiga is off the development line for about ten years already, there is hardly any company left that still has anything to do with the Amiga. Too bad, this great computer line was killed by improper company management - but that is another story... :( Why am I using wintel for a non-linear video editing system? This is the platform I can afford. As the single most available platform, only this crap has affordable Sw and Hw. Anything I can do on Amiga I still do it on the Amiga - of course -, like sub-titling and logos and gfx. If I get rich sometime I will switch over to Pro equipment and technology, and I will not suffer from using crappy wintel anymore. :) »CL6:*** rATMAN: I am sad indeed I can not avoid using PEEcees. I use vinblows only IF I have to. My area of expertise is designing, implementing and maintaining computer networks, I am sysadminning a lot of PEEcee-based servers, but I do hate each and every single one of them - with no exception. I am tweaking on one of my Amigas whenever I can, as although the time has passed over it, no other current architecture can provide the same flexibility, performance and efficiency that the Amiga can. ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: In what way, if any, does 'Amiga' play a part in your productions and life? I saw some nice pro-Amiga texts in Ladenism, but is that it, or are you more into the Amiga than only for, let's say, nostalgic, reasons? »CL7:*** Lay: We are not using the Amiga out of nostalgy - not at all! An Amiga - be it any kind of Amiga -, is not just a mere tool, but also a partner, inseparable from the one who loves it. An Amiga CAN even be used for a server, but we are not going to deem such a beauty to crouching in a dark corner and moving data about, are we? The Amiga is worthy of a far better treatment. It is a computer one can USE. One is not having to worry about what is not working due to which particular part of the OS right now, one can use it for everything with no fuss. Everything can be done on Amiga. Anything cannot be done on Amiga is CANNOT be done at all, or makes no sense to be done. »CL0:**** DeToX: I am not completely in agreement with the above statement, as DV editing cannot be done on Amiga, and yet I like editing video and IMHO it makes sense to do it. But I hope once we will live the day DV hits the Amiga! :) BTW., I always prefer using my Amiga anytime to suffering on my PEEcee. On a daily basis, all my accounting / text editing / internet usage (except for web-browsing, as I don't have a gfx card) is done on Amiga. I am using an A1200 equipped with a 060 + SCSI. I like the scene very much and I am happy about that they can still produce demos and games putting PEEcees to shame, stuff that I can slap into PEEcee-users' face! »CL6:*** rATMAN: Well, the problem is - I could not use a quad-port FastEthernet NIC in the old gal, even if I wanted to. As I am used to do my network simulations at home, I could not use the Amiga for anything but monitoring network activity - it is ultra-mega-superb at it, though! BTW., I have one of my own Amigas working as a server for almost 5 years by now - right now it is an A3000Tower (can be accessed as amiga.rulez.org - if interested in details drop an e-mail to ratman@amiga.rulez.org ). ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: Alright, let's become more specific, and talk about the MS2k2 and Ladenism now.. In what way would you say that Ladenism was different from your previous wilddemo? Was it a continuation of the Crimson Jihad wilddemo, or was it in some way radically different? What were your motivating thoughts behind Ladenism? »CL0:*** DeToX: Okay one more Q to be answered by me. :) "J.I.H.A.D." was specifically made for the MS wild compo. If there is such a compo like this one, why not to enter some clever stuff providing material for contemplation, so sceners can watch something better than all those bloody anims/party-videos. It is a great opportunity at making many-many ppl - perhaps even open-minded and clever ones -, get familiar with our ideas. "Ladenism" was more of a spontaneous production, not planned as long in advance, inspired by that action by Bin Laden & Co., and the reactions following it. I had no other motivation but only to introduce the other side of things, too - too bad, many ppl had their very mindset changed on that particular day of horror. :( It provided the USA and the dependant west-european governments an excellent reason to make scapegoats of ppl living in radically different cultures/religions/mindset. Unfortunately, the generic U.S. of A. citizen is heavily retarded - due to the sophisticated media/propaganda in effect there. They do indeed believe theirs is the best society model on the whole world. -Be a good patriot! -Fight for order, right and justice! -Fight for ppl's welfare! While at the same time it is all about protecting selfish USA interests in world economy, military power and political influence. And of course it is all about their haughtiness! -WHAT?? -A bunch of ragbag dirty arabians attacking us on home ground?? -What the fuck they think?? - We will show them!.. And it seems like it sanctifies everything, even slaughtering masses of poor innocent ppl using the most sophisticated up-to-date military technology, out of USA borders. We have already seen it happen time-to-time, in Vietnam.. in Iraq.. in Somalia.. The world's largest military-power and information-network in the control of a few megalomaniac loonies preaching about freedom and liberty! What a joke! So, in my eyes, the U.S. of A. is a hypocrite, self-deceiving country. A pathetic example of the axis of lies called "democracy". ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: Did the possibility occur to you that Ladenism might be too provoking and might get disqualified? As I remember your people at MS, you looked rather sad and disappointed by the disqualification, so it seems to have been a surprise? »CL7:*** Lay: Of course we were expecting it, the more so as after last year's product, J.I.H.A.D., one of the organisers, a girl, was very much scandalised and she was giving us her negative opinions at length. »CL0:*** DeToX: I was not surprised about getting disqualified. This product was too much for the brainwashed mindset of some ppl. At the same time, it is true, politics has got no place at a computer party. Thinking back now, I take it for completely reasonable, it is but the way things happened and organisers handled the problem I still cannot accept. »CL6:*** rATMAN: I was a bit surprised, as I have already told above. Later I realised, this whole topic turned into a taboo for the "civillised" western societies. Not so for me, a man living in some "balkanised" country (the sad fact is, most americans don't have a clue where Hungary is, and this holds even for a few more countries nearby). It did not get too provocative IMHO. It is simply true as it is. ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: You seemed like you were on friendly terms with some of the organizers.. How did they react, and how come you were disqualified AFTER your wilddemo was shown? Didn't some of the organizers see your wilddemo before that, and accepted it? And what reasons did the organizers give you for disqualifying your production? »CL7:*** Lay: Yes, we are in good contact with quite a few organisers at the MS party. And so it could have happened we could even enter Ladenism past the compo deadline. As there was no time left for recording the demo to tape we have called over an organiser to check what it is all about and if it is okay for the compo. He told us it's okay. Then it was shown on the projector along with the rest of the wild demo entries, and that was when the scandal broke out, but Detox is the one who can give the details. »CL0:*** DeToX: Yes there are a few organisers - esp. Steeler -, who we are in a good personal contact with. BTW., I take them for very sympathic good buddies, and I can only congratulate them for the BEST ever scene party of the World! Unfortunately, they could not pre-jury the whole product as it was only completed past the deadline. It has got a lot of local footage and I did the final cut there. The Wild organiser guy - Gandalf -, had a look at it, but he could not watch it all - and that must be the very issue. :) BTW., there was another wild, a Polish one, that was also about politics, and it was pre-juried and disqualified. In the control room the stuff was playing directly from my PEEcee. It is a miracle windows had not crashed. :) While the video was playing a few screwed-up organisers stormed in demanding we should stop as the sponsors are not going to like it!.. ..but it was already too late. =8) What I have found annoying was the method it was excluded from the rest of the standard program, ie.: voting. They put a message on the projector saying they are sorry about the "inconvenience" - I have even included a shot of this scene in the final release of Ladenism -, and they have started removing and scratching our product from the party distro servers, even last year's winner by us, J.I.H.A.D.!! They were pissed-off real bad at us, and it made me the more annoyed! :( ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: Obviously you don't think the disqualification was fair. Why do you think it happened? And why do you think so many people booed at your production? Do you think it was stepping on people's toes too much? That you crossed some lines you shouldn't have? And would you do precisely the same if you had to do it again, or would you 'moderate' your presentations to reach a broader audience, and get some good placements? »CL7:*** Lay: Of course we do accept organisers have the right to censure, even with no explanation given. The issue was not about this, but the way they have shown the entry and THEN disqualified/censured it. If only they were telling us at 1st it is not okay with them to enter the compo, that's it about it. So we are not annoyed about Ladenism getting disqualified, but the way it was done. At the least they should have had the guts that if they have not realised in time it is going to be a problem with them, after it was already shown they should not have done anything about it. The way it actually happened is very much immoral and disgusting. »CL0:*** DeToX: I have already explained part of my opinion above. If I would do Ladenism again - and I might -, I would change the ending, as many were led to believe I am happy about what happened on Sept.11th and the loss of many innocent lives. That's stupid. I think the CJ members featured with chequered rags on their heads at the start of the video should NOT be taken THAT serious! :) Even if we crossed some borderlines, it is the mental limitation of certain ppl. I believe in the complete freedom of speech and cannot ever accept censure, except for reasons of low or lacking quality of the given product. BTW., if there were even only a few sceners/ppl who liked the product and contemplated on the way things are going in our world, it is worth making it. Even more so for the free beer I got - Hi Clary! 8) The NET means a far wider audience to me. The INTERNET is great, as you can share your thoughts and opinions in a wider circle of audioence, but it is a two-edged sword at the same time, ie.: pedophile stuff. :( »CL6:*** rATMAN: We accept the censure. We cannot do anything about it. Still it felt great so many ppl have congratulated us after the Wild compo, about how brave and very frank etc.etc.etc. we are. :D ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: And in a question maybe related to that, were you surprised at the irony of your MS2K1 wilddemo winning, and your MS2k2 wilddemo losing, when they seem to have the same, recurring theme? Why do you think the two productions got such radically different fates? »CL7:*** Lay: Yes we do think so indeed. It is not so much ironic as it is pathetic. The organisers have just scored a big fat self-goal. »CL0:*** DeToX: I would not be as radical for myself. :) I can only repeat what I have already told here - unfortunately, Sept.11th has changed the mindset of a lot of ppl living in the western countries, and not to their advantage - in fact, for the worse! They don't know why those ppl did the attack at all, and they also don't understand why those ppl did the attack the very way they have done it! :( »CL6:*** rATMAN: Well, Ladenism was no more crude than J.I.H.A.D. was. Even less so! But those blind USA-worshippers just don't like being reminded about 911 - even though it was something they have brought upon themselves. ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: And what about the future? Will you be present at MS2k3 with a new wilddemo, or don't you want to support MS anymore? And if you do, are you afraid of risking disqualification again? »CL7:*** Lay: We are not going to boycott MS, as not counting the things that have happened it is still the BEST scene party ever. If there will be more products by us for MS is still too early to tell - let's see what the future brings about. If Bin Laden & Co. are going to do something spectacular again, we will do something about it. »CL0:*** DeToX: Well I don't entirely share this opinion. And as I am the one behind creating these wilds.. :) I have no intention of dealing with politics at this level anymore. Especially not in productions made for a scene party. So there will be more releases, but just not the same kind of releases as these were, and with a different sort of message. If I will get disqualified on those, too, it might be indeed I am doing things way lame. ..and anyway, I think Crims0n JiHAD too soft for my tastes, and so I have started my own faction! :) »CL6:*** rATMAN: I have already introduced a mega-brutal synopsis to maestro Detox, and the last time he was even liking it, still I don't know.. it might be possible. (DETOX! I GONNA HIT YOU!!! :D) ------------------------------------- »CL8:*** Darkhawk: D: Lastly, if there's anything you want to say, and that I haven't asked about.. Well, feel very much free to write it here. »CL7:*** Lay: I strongly recommend the movie "True Lies" for everyone. And don't go about the world with eyes wide shut, don't watch things indifferently and don't just shrug "It doesn't matter anyway" - if we don't take action the world will be facing a very nasty end! "To live and let live" »CL0:*** DeToX: I am joining the one before me, entirely sharing his ideas this time. OK, here follows a few of my fab audio/visual pieces, so you can get more familiar with my mindset! :) Movies: -Fight Club -Dark City -Fear And Loathing in Las Vegas -Dogma -GO! -The Adventures of Ford Fairlane -American Psycho -The Boondock Saints -The Abyss -The Beach -Trainspotting -Guy Ritchie movies... TV series: -Married with children -South Park ...this is THE very thing, the best scandal-bait in the world! 8) ...and chillout music videos in unlimited quantity...geez I'm gonna turn 30 very soon... :( Soon, you can access all our products at www.detox.hu and at www.dreamtrip.hu Thankx for the attention! Open your minds, young Badawans! :) »CL6:*** rATMAN: I for myself live my life according to the following beliefs - TheEndIsComing! Apocalypse!Apocalypse!We'reALLgonnaDI E! :D The true believer is not afraid of death! :D Also, I am currently committing suicide in the only legally and socially accepted and sanctified way - I'm working myself to death! :D