|2-LSD ARE DEAD Well whatever you think or want to believe?, my text was composed of many facts and truths (and yes I will agree with you and say it did also including a lot of slagging vented in anger at THEM getting an old friend of mine busted by their revenege and greed) but I must say that your idea of me being "intensly bitter & jealous" of LSD really did make me laugh. I don`t feel jealous about lsd. Infact my opinion is that LSD`s current existance is soley to keep Andy (Fish) happy and give him something to do. No matter what you may think or have read LSD did actually loose a *LOT* of their best most ^productive members^ when the Art (coder) and myself (also coder as you may know) left. For starters Trixter (coder) then said he was going to leave but was just waiting to get his promised 'free 144k modem' from funds from the LSD CD`s PROFITS'. (although this never happened and eventually he got fed up waiting and left anyway). Then there was Arctangent, he`d left just days before (one of the ONLY active graphics artists at the time). And also because lsd toward`s the end of 94 lsd was already beginning to get its now well established scene 'hate' status lots of other guys actually joined EX4. Where talking the likes of Zadd (graphics & musician) The Assassin (music), Deltex (music), Batfink (coder), etc. etc. <-- All these people joined EX4 but would NOT join LSD because of the bad name. Also I was leading a double working life at the time and also working under the handle of "The Raptor". So in that one week they lost all their active assembly intro/demo/production coders. In one sense though you may be right about me fighting a loosing battle against LSD. The reason I say this is because no matter how dead the group is fish will never ever let it die. Now this has been prooved time and time again by the complete inconsistancy of quaility productions, members and releases of Grapevine. You have even re-emphasised this point to me by your insistance on LSD have "100+ CONFIRMED LSD MEMBERS" (!) Oh come on! Hahah. If you really honestly believe this you`ve been totally brainwashed by their repeated lies. LSD have never had 100 members nor will they ever have 100 members (unless a new law is enforced allowing all misfits of society to join?? What its already inforced?? Maybe that would explain it then... ) .. Around 30 members *was* a realistic estimate and that was when they in their prime some 2 or 3 years ago! When I was in LSD we didn`t even have *ONE* graphics artist or *ONE* musician who would or could do us any graphics or music for any productions. The situation was really so bad that The Art when asked to do doc-disk intros ended up having to ; 1. design the intro itself 2. code the intro in assembly 3. draw all the graphics 4. compose all the music 5. even write the bloody scrolltexts... LSD for the last 12 months have only (if at all) partially survived on re-releases and re-hashes of other peoples old /X source-codes that where kicking about on Pazza`s and Mub`s "Coder BBS`s" (now I know why they wanted all the source-codes). Only their name has been kept alive by the policy of LSD to let ANY TRADER in any group join. And this was only just too keep the LSD name banded around the scene bbs`s to stop people really thinking they had died when we left. I KNOW for a COMPLETE FACT (yes another one) that LSD does not have no where your funny "100+ CONFIRMED" members. This is again prooved by the groups inability to code their OWN docdisk menu system for their lame docdisk releases (which are they only think that has kept people from thinking lsd was dead). If Lsd have even JUST ONE competant coder that could write a better docdisk that the one I slapped together nearly 2 years ago now then they would have written their own AGES AGO. It really grates fish to stil have to use my one.. He hates it but if he didn`t the LSD docdisks would revert back to their old 'cli menu' status and get nuked from EVERY BBS. Only the nice coded interface is keeping this from happening! And wake up if you think that the 'lsd prick wall' ansi door is so orgasmic that you quote it as being 'Fast Well Coded, jam packed full of features and looks great'.. Hahah, Com on! There are enough source- codes to these "so-tricky-to-code-that-they-NEED-to-be-well-coded" walls floating around on the scene to rebuild the Berlin Wall! ... TWICE OVER... If thats the extent of LSD`s current Expertise I`m suprised anyone is left (including yourself) ... apart from Fish of course.. The SIMPLE TRUTH is that LSD now has probably less than >10< *ACTIVE* productive members (excluding the loads of traders) in the *ENTIRE* group, even then this is probably an OVER ESTIMATION.. Gezzus.. And even this information is changing soon with the leaving of at 4 of its unhappy members (who have phoned me and chatted about it) due to leave in the next 3 weeks.. 2-COOL/EX4