>>No/no. I did about 7 grams of Syrian rue seeds last weekend. Never again. It >>did produce some interesting visuals, and a narcotic (yes, I know it's not >>really a narcotic, but it felt like it) effect. It also produced the worst >>nausea and vomiting I have ever experienced in my entire life. Awful is the >>only word to describe it. The next day I was still somewhat sick and very >>groggy. Has anyone had a GOOD experience from moderate/large dosages of Syrian >>Rue seeds? Was the nausea because of the harmaline, or due to other things in >>the seeds? > >How did you prepare the seeds? Did you boil them and drink the extract? O.K., for all the poor souls who had to ingest those horrible seeds, here is an extraction than I think anyone on this newsgroup can do in their kitchen without blowing themselves up. From "The Alkaloids" Vol. II by Manske (p393). Printed without permission. ISOLATION OF HARMINE AND HARMALINE "The crushed seeds of Peganum Harmala are covered with three times their weight of water containing 30 g of acetic acid per liter of water [white vinegar is about 50g / l or 5 %]. The seeds swell as they absorb the liquid and form a thick dough which is pressed after 2-3 days. The pressed seeds are once more treated as above with twice their weight of dilute acetic acid and, after maceration, the liquid is again pressed out. To the combined liquors, sodium chloride [that's table salt, man] (100g. / liter of liquid) is added to transform the acetates of harmine and harmaline into the hydrochlorides which are insoluble in cold sodium chloride solutions and are precipitated during cooling. The supernatant liquid is siphoned off, the crystalline residue filtered with suction and redissolved in hot water. Addition of sodium chloride to the filtered solution causes the precipitation of the hydrochlorides as a crystalline mush and this process is repeated until the hydrochlorides have acquired a yellow color (for the purposes of this newsgroup, once is enough). The final product is then recovered by filtration." The paper then goes on to describe the separation of harmine from harmaline, but this procedure is slightly more complicated and not necessary for most purposes. Pierre St Hilaire MIT Media Lab P.S. While this procedure is legal in the U.S. (where harmine and harmaline are currently unscheduled), it is illegal in Canada where harmine and harmaline are Schedule I. These are extremely potent alkaloids. Misuse of them can result in serious, even fatal, consequences. Read the FAQ about MAO inhibitors. ============================================================================= >Three grams of ground seeds has proved quite adequate. Less would >probably also work. <30 mg of harmaline should also do the trick. >I think a psychedelic dose of harmaline is around the 200 mg mark, >so maybe up to 20g of seeds could be eaten for the full effects A FOAF once chewed approximately 10 grams of harmala seeds. The full effects started within half an hour of ingestion, with occasional feelings of weightlessness and a peculiar enchanced and distorted perception of sound. He lay on his bed, eyes closed, and was immediately immersed in a visual fantasy starting with floating eyes (;-), one of which eventually swallowed the psychonaut and threw him into The World of Spirits(tm). The visionary and auditory quest continued for quite a while, during which our brave experimenter had an alarmingly high pulse and was seriously contemplating whether stroke or cerebral haemorrhage comes first. The body load was so horrible that he was unable to write down his experiment by any means, and any movement was extremely painful. He was nauseated but did not expel the contents of his stomach, although it probably would've been better if he had - the seeds don't digest too well. He was also completely unable to sleep during the whole night. The experiment started at around 8 pm. (post mortem?) As for the trip, it was very much like how Ayahuasca is often described. Perhaps this knowledge affected the course of our apprentice ayahuascero's voyage. Anyway, there were e.g. eyes-closed visions of the Amazonas, with sparkly fireworks in the sky. The statue of a hawk-headed deity, accompanied by a section of Revolution 9 (on the auditory side) appeared. No jaguars, however. ;-) There was very little, if no synesthesia and visual distortions were limited to a blurred vision and very strong tracers. Emotional effects were very profound and he encountered an extemely critical inner voice pointing out how he had neglected and mistreated the people around him. There was also a sensation that could be best described as "cognitive feedback" and which is often felt during high fever. He felt telepathic contact with the late(?) curandera Maria Sabina and some people, supposedly Americans, who had permanently crossed the river Styx as a result of Ayahuasca experiments. This was probably influenced by a net article describing a butane huffer who saw spirits of people who had died from said indulgence. Well, that's about it. It doesn't make much sense and there's no logical or chronological continuum, but considering the circumstances, it's an adequate sum-up of my friend's experience. He might have left something out or thrown in an after-fancy, as this happened almost a year ago. By the way, he had not eaten or drunk anything which could've interacted with the alkaloids, so they were fully responsible of the dangerous sympathomimetic side effects. I advise excercising some caution before chewing up a bloody ounce of the stuff. As to DMT, comparing my friend's experience with the Ayahuasca one, I'd say that the only difference is the level of visual effects and perhaps the combination being more "unreal".